Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
Omnes et Nihil
Established Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:38 pm

Re: Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

Postby Omnes et Nihil » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:01 pm

I like this discussion (and I haven't been here in months I think... been busy).

Just had to add... it seems the latent assumption of "temporary asexuality" as something necessarily problematic is itself part of the mess. We're working within the framework that asexuality as a permanent and unchangeable state is a (necessary) condition for asexuality being recognised as legitimate. And sadly... because of people's reactions, in this political context, it really is-- people who stop being asexual can undermine the general opinion of asexuality as legitimate. But that in itself is the problem (any people who stop being asexual aren't the problem).

A couple years ago, my housemate pointed out that sexual people go through asexual (or less sexual) periods all the time; and that asexuality might be a really useful in understanding total human experience.

For a lot of us here, the asexuality part is all we know. And for some of us, it's not. (And for the less asexually-inclined, it might not be known at all.) That doesn't make any of our experiences any less legitimate, or any less worthy of being recognised.

Gosh-darn it, we're back to the politics and the resistance... and the very idea of a "real" asexual is a response to the resistance that asexual people face for just being. And asexual people talking about "real" and "not real" asexuals is in itself a form of resistance. It's not a particularly affirming one (and it's not consistent with allowing people to self-identity if that's taken seriously); but I do think it's important to recognise where that move is coming from and why it might seem so important for helping (or hindering) asexuality in gaining legitimacy.

*I hereby conclude that I am incapable of saying just a few words on any topic. I give up.*

User avatar
Heligan
New Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:23 pm

Re: Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

Postby Heligan » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:32 am

Omnes et Nihil - excellent post-

You are quite correct.
However its probably like the homosexuality thing, where that needed to be accepted before bisexuality was accepted though- people like stuff simple, and if it isnt they like to at least pretend it is until they get used to the idea.

When they were doing the new leaflet on AVEN I tried to get the 'asexual phases' thing in, everyone said it would just complicate the issue, it left me feeling like i wasnt a 'real asexual'. Ironic as I have ten years of sexless, relationshipless, asexuality; under my belt, as it were, which is probably a lot more than most people on AVEN.

I could stand here and argue that even when I thought of myself as sexual, I was real a Grey-A, but Im not sure what that would achieve either.

I think for lots of people all they really want is for how they feel to be seen as a legitimate way to feel, certainly the 'no sex asexuals', have a harder time trying to fit into society; so maybe we should start with them. Lets face it Grey-As can 'pass' as sexual in most cases.

It is politics after all. But maybe after facing off with the most extreme positions, such as aromatic asexuals we could conceded a few pages into a leaflet or site that, actually it is a spectrum and you can move about on it...

As a side point:-
Im not sure that grouping anti-sex, repressed and repulsed together is that good..I find it a bit objectionable.
I think 'repressed' is meaningless, as all of us can be accused of that, especially if we are honest about our past. In any case as most people cant repress their sexuality, it seems to indicate that those who can do have some asexual tendencies at the very least...
'Repulsed' also seems a bit vague, as most people would be repulsed at the idea of sex with someone they dont find sexual attractive... so its sort of a result of asexuality rather than a cause. Even the 'repulsed' at the idea of sex generally is too vague for my liking, it is pretty disgusting if you stop to think about it, most sexuals even agree on that- So what does repulsed even mean?
'Anti-sex' comes in a lot of forms too, from the 'we are too smart to want sex' mild form, to the outright 'sex is evil incarnate brigade'... although I am distrurbed by these folk as I dont see sex as bad or inferior making... I do think that in a lot of cases this way of thinking is just rationalizing asexuality because it makes people feel isolated. If asexuality was accepted maybe such justification wouldnt be resorted to be many.
So I dont think any of these things mean you cant be asexual.

I can see many sides of this, but I think you are right its very important not to just give people the simple message and leave it at that... as I say lead with it, but quickly accept that it isnt simple.
"We only half live when we only half think." Voltaire (1694-1778)
‘Life has no meaning a priori … It is up to you to give it a meaning, and value is nothing but the meaning that you choose.’ Jean-Paul Sartre

User avatar
Lehcar
New Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

Postby Lehcar » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:11 pm

....you guys are starting to make my head hurt.

I want to say something to each of your posts, because they all deserve it - but when I started, I realized that I need to think about what you've brought up before I can! Thanks for the great responses though.

User avatar
Heligan
New Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:23 pm

Re: Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

Postby Heligan » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:22 am

Since I posted on here about Grey-As passing, Grey Lady has bought my comments up in a blog
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=212

No probs with that...

But I have since learnt a bit more terminology and think that I used to be a specific variety of Grey-A; a demisexual (not feeling sexual attraction without a certain level emotional connection) and that maybe its much easier for demisexuals to pass than for other Grey-As with maybe more random or unknown triggers for sexual attraction.
I suppose even demisexuals have a certain amount of difficulty is sex is expected very quickly and you havent got to the emotional connection quick enough to know if you do or dont 'fancy' the person in a sexual way. I never really worried about that, but then I didnt know I was wired weird when I was dating... I suppose knowing you might never get sexuality triggered does makes it more of an ethical issue... but then Im not sure I would have carried on dating someone whom I didnt start to find sexually attractive at some point anyway.

I guess Gray_As have the same problem with sex that everyone has with love... theres some Factor X that 'does it for you' but there not an easy way to telll ahead of time, or even a few dates in on many occassions, if its going to work out.
"We only half live when we only half think." Voltaire (1694-1778)
‘Life has no meaning a priori … It is up to you to give it a meaning, and value is nothing but the meaning that you choose.’ Jean-Paul Sartre

disjointed

Re: Legitimacy and Blurry Lines

Postby disjointed » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:20 am

When it comes to stages of..in this case asexuality there seems to be a common direction..and whilst this may sound elitist I feel it is generally right

if you look at say avens birthday list everyday you will see ..a guestimate..95% of those in there are no longer posters of any kind and may have stopped posting/visiting within months of joining

of those 95% again i would guess that 95% of those are in the discovery band..i.e. 16-25

Now in this facebook age where someone says..oo look a new site ..i think i must be one of them..they tell thier mates and next thing you know 20 or 30 join and have a look and within weeks never to revisit

but this i feel is in general for most sites these days and for those who fit in the category a fair share will be unsure and seek further info.

Within asexuality thier are like so many of our lives..grey areas and the simple black and white line is divided by a rubber band with more flexibility than most think..i'm okay with that