I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
PiF
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I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby PiF » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:14 am

Man walks into a saab car dealers...I'd like a saab please...salesman says certianly sir ..saabs are known throughout the world for what they are, which model?....the one with the three pointed star and german build quality please says the customer...salesman says but sir that is a mercedes?...man replies , look I know what saab thinks it is and I know I was attracted to what and who they are but now because I want one... I want it to change into a mercedes too...salesman, sir, this is a saab dealer, all we sell is saabs, all we will ever sell is saabs, all we service is saabs, all our parts are saab, all our technicians are saab trained......man replies, you are biggots and mercedesphobic !

The lgbt is for lesbian gay bi and trans that is it..it backfired on them a bit when they threatened companies and organisations by stating they are discriminating against a minority.....but then some people who were not lgbt ,wanted to ride on the lgbt's coat tails.... some in the lgbt said no...those smaller groups then used the lgbt's own tactics against them...as a result the lgbt now is the LGBTQUIA+ This is and looks like a dislexics nightmare or someone going for the high score in scrabble...it's a joke

We in asexuality have something in common..the largest group within asexuality who claim asexuality do not even meet the definition but we have added and added and added to a point where we for such a small group trying to get others to believe in who we are..look at us and point out the glaring contradictions and say sorry...but why should we believe what you are when you don't even know what you are yourself.

If you join a group that you know you are not correct to that groups intent and identification...then you have joined the wrong group..staying in that group to rip its definition apart for your own wrongfull identification is plain stupid and selfish..it's you buddy, your in the wrong group

back to the lgbt LGBTQUIA+.....pure and utter nonsense...lets get one thing straight..the A is for allies..it was and has never been for asexuals but it was always meant to welcome asexuals within that ally definition

The LGBT should have stayed true to what they are and at the very most should have only ever added the A...LGBTA..that is it..almost every group or individual who is not lesbian, gay bi or trans and wants to join or support the lgbt would be covered easily by the ally addition

I have some facts for those asexuals who get all hissy fit about the A meaning Ally and not asexual..in every poll within aven when asked one defining question...should asexuality be part of the lgbt?..every polls majority has sent a very clear ...NO

when asked should asexuals identify as queer...most agree No as most asexuals are straight..no matter how you now try and twist the term queer to fit your personal agender , away from its recognised term

so for those giving the lgbt a hard time because they have decided the lgbts own definitions mean ally and not asexual I would say...grow up snowflake !

the lgbt are welcoming, they welcome us as allies but you as an individual do not have a right to go into that organisation and demand the group identification change because you have identified wrongly

I saw a asexual having a hissy fit the other day..I know..imagine that ..where they said...

Not once did I say I wanted acceptance from the LGBT community in particular nor that did I want to be part of it, I want acceptance period, wich is my right and everyone's. I find it hypocritical to be discriminated by people who fight discrimination for being who they are. Again I don't want to "meet the requirements" to join a sect I want to fight what they fight because the end goal is the same. It's kind of hard to do that when there's bigotry within them and out of them.

now forgive me but I want acceptance is a demand and a demand that others should accept you?.... is plain stupid and real life unnaceptable...it is not your right ..not at all..no one has a right to demand acceptance in any walk of life....we all can seek it, do our very best towards that goal ourselves but there are no guarranties...even more so if you are seeking acceptance from a group who's identitiy you do not meet

Feeling you belong in the lgbt or you supporting the lgbt does not automatically make it so that you are lgbt...definition by association is no definition at all

They are called the lgbt because that used to be their identity...we are called asexuals because that used to be our identity

If you lose your group identity because people are wrongly identifying but want to belong no matter what the cost is to the group...then the group needs to stand up and take pride in their identity and promote it accurately otherwise we have no identity at all.....umbrella and spectrum are terms are used for those people who do not meet the definitions or identity...this isn't refusal of others...this is informing correctly who and what your group is...I want a dime bar, the price says 69 cents...by saying 69 cents, that is accurate...it is not biggotted to the 1-68 cents or biggotted to the 70-99 cents...it is simply the correct information

That isn't discriminatory...that is some one being honest enough to realise they were a mercedes driver all along and not a saab one....that doesn't mean you give saab bullcrap for your choices that are different to theirs..they are allowed to call themselves saab all day long

When another group sets it's own definitions such as allies...who the hell are asexuals to get all shitty because they are so precious they demand thier own intial?...imagine the lgbt came into asexuality and demanded that the grey arena should be renamed the lgbt arena...how would asexuals take that?

Honestly..some of you angry label warriors..save up your pocket money...because Phyciatrists are going to make a living out of you for a very long time

flergalwit
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby flergalwit » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:37 am

I'm not inclined to rehash the LGBTQ+ argument yet again - as far as I can tell, what I wrote (originally) 5 years ago in this document still more or less applies with minor modifications or updates - but on a purely factual point:
PiF wrote:in every poll within aven when asked one defining question...should asexuality be part of the lgbt?..every polls majority has sent a very clear ...NO

This is manifestly false. The first 3 I came across when googling:
http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/5365 ... gbt-group/
http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/3650 ... d-in-lgbt/
http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/5578 ... -umbrella/ (gosh you must have seen this one as you started it! more than 2/3 voted yes!)

All 3 show a clear majority saying yes.

I think I remember seeing polls that suggest a different outcome. But your statement that every poll has a clear majority of "no" is obviously incorrect.

Aslan
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby Aslan » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:16 am

PiF wrote:when asked should asexuals identify as queer...most agree No as most asexuals are straight..no matter how you now try and twist the term queer to fit your personal agender , away from its recognised term


Also on a purely factual note, according to the recent AVEN census (Section 2.1, on page 7), most asexuals are not straight. 22% of asexual respondents said they were heteroromantic, 19.8% said they were panromantic, 12.4% said they were biromantic, and 19% said they were aromantic. Combining the panromantic, biromantic, and aromantic respondents together gives you 51%. Even if you just combined bi/panromantic asexuals together, you'd get 32.2% of respondents, which is still more than 22% of heteroromantic asexuals.

PiF wrote:now forgive me but I want acceptance is a demand and a demand that others should accept you?.... is plain stupid and real life unnaceptable...it is not your right ..not at all..no one has a right to demand acceptance in any walk of life....we all can seek it, do our very best towards that goal ourselves but there are no guarranties...even more so if you are seeking acceptance from a group who's identitiy you do not meet


I agree with you there, but the asexual person you quoted did have a point. It's hypocritical for the LGBTQ+ community to not accept asexuals when they themselves have not been accepted for who they are for a very long time. We're all fighting for the same goal here in the long run.

Also PiF, the LGBT community has never just been "for lesbian gay bi and trans that is it." Historically, it was pretty much focused on male homosexuality. Then, I think sometime in the 1900s, the latter were added in, though I'm not really sure on the details. And the LGBT community has been exclusive of bisexuals and transgender people as well - or what most people would call "its own kind."
Last edited by Aslan on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Skycaptain
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby Skycaptain » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:36 pm

I've posted this elsewhere, but for brevity's sake why not just have two groups. The majority are cis-gendered-heterosexual, and everyone who is outside this sex-binary are anything-but-cis-gendered-heterosexual, rather than alphabet soup

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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby KAGU143 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:48 am

I tried that for a while but it didn't go over very well.
In essence, you're either queer or you're not, so I consider myself queer, but not gay. But meh ... whatever.
Without splitting hairs and getting into my gender identity issues (which aren't worth bothering with at my age), it's easier just to call myself asexual and be done with it.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

PiF
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby PiF » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:23 am

I did see your links Michael thank you, the first two were before my time and at the very early we are a lgtb franchise for coat tail visibility. The third I had forgotten as I had taken a voluntarty leave from aven, one of many :D

Skycaptain wrote:I've posted this elsewhere, but for brevity's sake why not just have two groups. The majority are cis-gendered-heterosexual, and everyone who is outside this sex-binary are anything-but-cis-gendered-heterosexual, rather than alphabet soup


This is probably why as Nancy said it didn't work out^^ not one of that sexual identitiy gobble de gook has anything to do with an asexual definition

flergalwit
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby flergalwit » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:25 am

Haha August 2010 isn't "before your time": I know, because we've been squabbling about this very issue longer than that. It was arguments with you and a few other people that caused me to put together that document linked above, which we handed out at London Pride in July 2010 for the first time.

You've been around longer than you realise, Piffy!

PiF
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby PiF » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:52 am

I know :D

But unless I keep you sandle wearing tree hugging Lgbtqqiabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz fantasists on your toes, who will ? :lol: Someone has to remind people what asexuality really is :P

I haz been around since the summer of 2008

flergalwit
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby flergalwit » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:02 am

But piffy if we stand on our toes then we will be just as tall as you, and what will you have to boast about then? :p

PiF
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby PiF » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:43 am

You would have to stand on giraffe's toes to be taller than me fuzzy face .....Being me is more than enough :P :D :lol:

SpanishDuchess
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby SpanishDuchess » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:27 am

How tall is my beloved Piffy?
Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. ~Arthur Miller

Ciri
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby Ciri » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:14 am

He's a shrimp.

I think he's about half an inch taller than me :p

I'm not queer, Mic, your fuzzlebutt face is queer.
You're all dead and I'm your eternal punishment.

PiF
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Re: I do have sympathy for the lgbt when it comes to asexuals

Postby PiF » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:06 am

I am in old money 6ft 3inches...Michael, well it's difficult to tell as the face fungus may add a few inches onto his actual height

Ciri always seems to be the right height for the cake counter :D