No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
PiF
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby PiF » 17 Mar 2016, 08:24

I wonder if you had seen this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8akTomUGtpY

I would agree with you that there are so many labels within asexuality that it is difficult to take it seriously but there are those of us who actually are Asexual

Where many of the problems are is with biggism's.....asexuality is one very small difference...in every other manor we have little or no differences to sexuals.

Biggisms though are not specific to asexuality, most gender/sexual identity forums do tend to try and make it bigger than it is because they want to belong, want to be important but saying we only have one small but important difference isn't cool enough for some.

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KAGU143
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby KAGU143 » 17 Mar 2016, 10:50

Thrasymachus, were you and PiF separated at birth? (JK.)

Both of you seem to think that your opinions about asexuality are the only real truth and that the views of the majority are irrelevant compared to your enlightened understanding. In my experience, this isn't the way that things work. The opinions of the majority will usually end up being accepted as fact - at least until they can conclusively be proven wrong, and when most people can't tell the difference between their own confirmation bias and demonstrable truth then that proof can be VERY hard to disseminate.

Anyway, you're both wrong so it doesn't matter. :mrgreen:

Thrasymachus, I don't know how long you've been involved with asexuality, or if you even identify as asexual, but it seems to me that you're trying to re-write history.
The question about whether or not asexuality should be considered a legitimate sexual orientation has seemingly been asked a million times, and the answer has always been, "Mostly Yes, and some No."
Mostly Yes, because part of communicating an idea, especially a new idea, is framing it in a context that people can understand - even if it isn't a perfect fit. It is still the CLOSEST fit, and for a number of reasons.
To expect it to be a perfect fit is to expect the world to be clearly divided into absolute truth or absolute falsehood, with no room for nuance, and I don't think you're that naive.
Some people can't understand that the ability to experience sexual arousal and the ability, or even the desire, to have orgasms has no bearing at all on a person's sexual orientation. It has no more significance than any other random itch. If a straight man has an annoying erection while on a ship full of nothing but men, and he takes care of the problem himself, does that act define his sexual orientation? Masturbation by itself has nothing to do with sexual orientation or sexuality.

Asexuality has never been defined - EVER - as an inability to have sex or as any sort of physical problem with a person's genitalia. Of course asexual men will have "morning wood", and asexual teen boys will be just as subject to random erections as any other teenaged boy. Asexual women will still have menstrual cycles and all of the hormonal changes that go with them.

And No, because some people like yourself are either unable or unwilling to make or acknowledge a distinction between physical/sexual attraction and mental/emotional attraction. (It makes me wonder if you've ever had a beloved sibling or very close friend that you cared for deeply, but couldn't imagine having sex with?) They simply cannot imagine any form of attraction to other people that isn't sexual in some way.

I guess the question I want to ask of you, Thrasymachus, is this:
Where are you coming from in regards to asexuality? How did you become so polarized in your beliefs?
You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but your hard line position is hard to interpret without some sort of context.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby PiF » 17 Mar 2016, 11:14

KAGU143 wrote:Thrasymachus, were you and PiF separated at birth? (JK.)

Both of you seem to think that your opinions about asexuality are the only real truth and that the views of the majority are irrelevant compared to your enlightened understanding. In my experience, this isn't the way that things work. The opinions of the majority will usually end up being accepted as fact - at least until they can conclusively be proven wrong, and when most people can't tell the difference between their own confirmation bias and demonstrable truth then that proof can be VERY hard to disseminate.


Of course I'm right ..I follow the definition :lol:

The problem with the majority within a minority is that there rarely is one because every time you get a majority then some who do not fit into that majority then try and create their own spin and if a few feel the same then even within that few some will want a double spin

The best you can say about asexuality..is most claiming to be..are not and for most claiming to be under the "umbrella" or "spectrum"...pretty much all of those are sexuals looking to have a little bit of an asexual "tinge" :lol:

KAGU143 wrote:Anyway, you're both wrong so it doesn't matter. :mrgreen:


I'm pretty confident I'm right and very comfortable with it...it is one small difference and nothing more :P

KAGU143 wrote:I guess the question I want to ask of you, Thrasymachus, is this:
Where are you coming from in regards to asexuality? How did you become so polarized in your beliefs?
You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but your hard line position is hard to interpret without some sort of context.


That is why I asked if they were Asexual

were they challenging it because as an asexual they lost faith with the sillyness within our community particulary sexuals claiming asexuality

were they challenging it purely as they do not agree asexuals exist

or do they simply go from forum to forum telling them all their forums are wrong

so yes I'm interested in the drive also

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby Thrasymachus » 20 Mar 2016, 09:07

@KAGU143:
I am NOTHING like PIF. The definition of a boner that young clueless, likely AVENite gave is pointless. If in the presence of another person you get a boner, then you are attracted to them. But we have laughable asexuals giving definitions like the one I will cite again:

Erections are basically involuntarily physical reactions, so yes I still get erections.


So if it is an involuntarily physical reaction, and you do get boners in the presence of other humans because of their presence, it is not physical/sexual attraction! How convenient! Lol. I am pretty sure I have heard David Jay perform similar definitional contortions in Youtube clips or the documentary Asexual.

Btw, I didn't watch the whole clip when I posted that gem, but I watched it all and it was basically two young, very introverted nerds who met online and so the Dutch male visited the girl from Australia. Probably it was a playcation paid for by his parents. I especially cringed when those awkward nerds did some medieval knights re-enactment, though I think the TV production crew could have pushed that activity to push a nerd trope. Which is funny because I created my first thread in AVEN after deeming it not worth posting to for well over a year:
The Walnut Theory: Sex, Marriage & Kids Are Not Worth It

Eventually a very butthurt young hikikomori or recluse starting immediately baiting me:
Philip027 wrote:Ok, so maybe your family doesn't contain a good example of a lasting healthy marriage.


Eventually to disprove my citation of statistics and research about how bad of a bargain marriage and raising kids now are, he offered this "counter" of his "success" story:
http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1225 ... p-for-two/

tldr: Basically his parents and the parents of another similarly stunted female AVENite arranged for them to meet up in Canada, since one lived in Hawaii and the other in France for a chaperoned playcation for a short duration! And that gives those sheltered young nerds the temerity to think they know everything!

That is basically AVEN in a nutshell, arrogant young people and people with mental issues, those who are extremely lonely, creating lots of drama and making up nonsense. In the youtube clip I cited the 20 year old Australian asserted that at 20 she knows enough about her sexuality! Maybe I could more believe that from a less sheltered demographic that tried lots of stuff out sexually, but from a nerdy wallflower to know the same about herself at 20? Absolutely not.

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby PiF » 20 Mar 2016, 09:12

Thrasymachus wrote:@KAGU143:I am NOTHING like PIF. The definition of a boner that young clueless, likely AVENite gave is pointless.


Hey, I don't care what else he wrote..the fact he called me young is good enough for me...I'll take it :lol: :lol:

slight edit

thras when you post links to aven...a number of avens forums cannot be seen by non members..so we won't see them.

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby Thrasymachus » 20 Mar 2016, 09:27

@PIF:
No, I am saying the blond Dutch guy in this Youtube clip:
https://youtu.be/yrXWqwuOqIQ?t=328

Is a clueless young, likely AVENite. It says they started an online relationship on a forum and later had their playcation in Australia. Btw, long distance relationships, especially across several continents are for desperate, unrealistic, toxic people who have little options.

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby PiF » 20 Mar 2016, 09:32

that one I did watch

They are still refusing to release the aven 2015 census and that is why...the 2014 showed most claiming to be asexual were not but were on "the spectrum", 75% were females and most were in uni or college..that is why it's very rare you see normality within claimed asexuality.

It is incredibly rare to see older asexual people, in a relationship but normal everyday people if you get my drift

so yes, the dutch video you posted just paints asexuals as young in love stoners that the internet has helped travel the globe looking for other young in love stoners.

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KAGU143
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby KAGU143 » 20 Mar 2016, 12:26

Btw, long distance relationships, especially across several continents are for desperate, unrealistic, toxic people who have little options.


Hmmm . . .
Well, Thrasymachus, I started my current relationship online, although it was not with someone on another continent, and I didn't intend for it to become anything special at the time it started. I think Kæth and I were separated by about 2,700 miles, give or take, and 2 time zones, so I think it would have been fair to call it a long distance relationship even though we were both in the US.
I think you have missed the target with this particular generalization, because I know that Kæth and I are not rare exceptions. A huge number of relationships are beginning online nowadays - perhaps almost as many as are beginning face to face. I'm not sure how many of them will ultimately be successful, but that is another subject altogether. I know of several successful and happy marriages that began as long- distance relationships on AVEN, but I also know of some people who were friends for a while and now can't stand each other. Today's internet is equivalent to yesteryear's talking over the back fence, or, to go back even farther, relationships that started out as letter correspondence, or becoming pen pals.

No matter how they meet, a successful couple has to begin with 2 successful singles, (meaning: knowing how to be self-sufficient, emotionally mature, etc.) and a quick look at the membership of most online communities will tell you that the odds are not in favor of this situation occurring. In fact, it seems to be getting even less likely as time goes by, but nonetheless it CAN happen.

Broad, sweeping generalizations are seldom, if ever, true.
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby Thrasymachus » 30 Mar 2016, 16:58

KAGU143 wrote: A huge number of relationships are beginning online nowadays - perhaps almost as many as are beginning face to face. I'm not sure how many of them will ultimately be successful, but that is another subject altogether.


Just because a trend is accelerating does not mean the trend is good. More socialization is happening online because it has too -- way too many people are spending way too much time staring at screens and thus ignoring the people actually around them.

KAGU143 wrote:I know of several successful and happy marriages that began as long- distance relationships on AVEN, but I also know of some people who were friends for a while and now can't stand each other. Today's internet is equivalent to yesteryear's talking over the back fence, or, to go back even farther, relationships that started out as letter correspondence, or becoming pen pals.



If you only know someone online, you don't really know them. Thus you cannot say that the people you only know online from AVEN are having successful relationships, because people are not going to show their life's worts online. For example in my walnut theory thread, I covered with some great sources what a bad deal marriage now is:
The Walnut Theory: Sex, Marriage & Kids Are Not Worth It

But that wedding band doesn't have magical powers: 29 percent of married people reported being lonely. "There's nothing worse than being half of a couple that's not getting along," says Ironside, the London Independent advice columnist. "There are lots of difficult things about living alone, but at least no one is actively ignoring you."


I have about 40 co-workers total who I know in real life to some degree. I don't know how many of them cannot stand their partners, wives, spouses because that is the type of knowledge most people hide to all but a few close confidants -- but suffice it to say, that alot of them have to be in such life circumstances. I know for a fact since I stayed at many of my relatives in Greece houses, that most of my distant aunts don't have successful marriages, they have unhappy marriages -- but they stay married for one reason or another. The unrealistic fruitcakes at AVEN are the type to play poker online about their lives and make their relationships seem more successful than they really are.

Anyway this is off-topic anyway and I will eventually create a separate thread about why online relationships(even online friendships) and long-distance relationships are dumb and unrealistic.

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby KAGU143 » 31 Mar 2016, 07:09

You are, of course, welcome to post your opinions and you don't need to worry about being banned for expressing them.

However, you might be interested in knowing that I met my husband at AVEN about 12 years ago, and that we have been happily married since 2008. In addition, I still stay in contact with many of AVEN's original admods who are no longer active on the site, and there are 2 more happily married couples among that group. We have all met many times in person as well as online.

Using the internet to meet people is neither good nor bad by itself. It's just a tool, and if you meet at websites which cater to a common interest then you will have the advantage of knowing that you already share at least that one thing.
If you meet at "dating" websites . . . . my condolences.
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby CatBunny » 31 Mar 2016, 14:54

Well the definition I go by is no sexual attraction to genders. Any of the other descriptions just muddy it really. Funny enough my therapist actually firmly believes i'm asexual, he knows i'm a sexual being but understands my lack of attraction to genders.

@KAGU143 yes, you're right, finally pif found their long lost twin lol
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby Thrasymachus » 01 Apr 2016, 05:34

@Catbunny:
What are you trying to say, that you are attracted to "none", which would be neither males, females, hermaphrodites or transgenders, etc.?

What do you mean your therapist knows your "sexual" but you are not attracted to genders? Do you mean masturbation?

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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby CatBunny » 01 Apr 2016, 05:54

Thrasymachus wrote:@Catbunny:
What are you trying to saying, that you are attracted to "none", which would be neither males, females, hermaphrodites or transgenders, etc.?

What do you mean your therapist knows your "sexual" but you are not attracted to genders? Do you mean masturbation?


yeah and he knows lack of gender attraction doesn't mean complete void of any sexuality. I still gots me a libido.
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby KAGU143 » 01 Apr 2016, 08:00

Some people cannot understand why asexuality is BEST defined as a sexual orientation, even though the definition isn't 100% perfect.

If you were to tell them that straight people are not sexually attracted to members of their own sex, but that they can still masturbate without thinking about an opposite-sex person, they MIGHT understand. (I wonder, sometimes.)

But, if you say that asexual people are not sexually attracted to people of ANY sex, but can still masturbate without thinking of ANY person, it seems to make their heads explode.
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Re: No sexual desire/attraction claims are wrongheaded

Postby PiF » 01 Apr 2016, 08:28

Last time I masturbated I felt dirty
















Mind you, I was standing in a shop window in the high street on a busy saturday :lol:


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