Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
disjointed

Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby disjointed » Mon May 24, 2010 2:07 pm

I've been giving this one a lot of thought of late....not because it's something going on in my life but it's a question I've not seen before

I want to say from the get go I have the greatest admiration for those who go through the process, even more for those who clearly make the change but still look like thier former sex

for me i think I could as a hetro male have a asexual relationship perhaps with a man who has gone through the full process of mtf

I would have only two conditions..one they must clearly look like a female and two....only one of us should have a dick...me

that may seem harsh but but considering many would not entertain that at all i think i'm quite chilled

now I know I'm not gay but i don't see a problem with a mtf weird...i am still trying to work that one out

before anyone panics...i would still prefer a relationship with a woman :lol:

so a general open question to all

could you have a relationship with someone who has gone through the mtf/ftm process ?

The Gray Lady
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby The Gray Lady » Mon May 24, 2010 4:11 pm

Disjointed wrote:a man who has gone through the full process of mtf


If you ever wanted to date a trans woman, first you'd better accept her as a woman, not a "man who has gone through the process of mtf" (which, btw, there are two or more separate processes--Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS)--plus electrolysis/laser hair removal). I guarantee you the relationship would not go well if you got into one with that mindset.

I'm not sure what is up with the phallophobia on your part, honestly. Especially if it is not even a sexual relationship. Why would it make a difference whether or not your partner "has a dick" at all?

To answer your question, yes, I could have a relationship with a trans person... with no stipulations on whether or not they have fully transitioned or not. FTM or MTF. I've dated both, and am currently in a long term committed romantic relationship with a trans woman.

disjointed

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby disjointed » Mon May 24, 2010 5:27 pm

I'm sorry grey i think you read the bits you wanted rather than the bits i had seen as a positive

I do not want to date a trans.....i asked if others would...and I said I personally would have no issue with it just one or two personal preferrences...which unless I'm mistaken I am allowed to decide who I want to date

i know it's a touchy subject as twice now I've tried to promote people at least thinking about trans relationships and both times trans have seen the negative rather than pushing the positive

I don't think I'll bother anymore

User avatar
Noskcaj.Llahsram
Regular Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Noskcaj.Llahsram » Mon May 24, 2010 6:40 pm

Honestly I'd be a little weirded out at first but it is something I could get over. But on the other hand, one of my harshest personal faults is I'm kinda shallow, so just what ever they present as they just better be good looking.

I always think I'm a horrible person after I admit I'm shallow :(
What is love? Well, you know that feeling you get when you've been locked in a tiny dark space alone for a year? It's kind of the opposite of that.

The Gray Lady
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby The Gray Lady » Mon May 24, 2010 8:36 pm

disjointed wrote:I'm sorry grey i think you read the bits you wanted rather than the bits i had seen as a positive

I do not want to date a trans.....i asked if others would...and I said I personally would have no issue with it just one or two personal preferrences...which unless I'm mistaken I am allowed to decide who I want to date

i know it's a touchy subject as twice now I've tried to promote people at least thinking about trans relationships and both times trans have seen the negative rather than pushing the positive

I don't think I'll bother anymore


No, I read the whole thing. That's why I said "If you ever wanted" rather than "If you want." And of course you are allowed to decide whom you want to date, but that doesn't change my total confusion about why a trans woman's penis would be a problem for you, in a non-sexual relationship. I mean... I would think the typical depression and anxiety from being so routinely harassed would prove to be a lot more of a problem than the physical parts, personally. So... can I ask why you're so anti-penis?

I see your comments as negative because they are not accepting. My girlfriend does not like being called a man, even if you say you admire her for going through with transition. I don't think you understand the pain a trans person feels upon being misgendered. I've watched her go through it. Essentially, it's a problem of ignorance due to cisgender privilege. I'm trying to explain to you why what you said is hurtful--yes, genuinely hurtful--so that perhaps you will stop making that mistake in the future.

I'm not trans, btw. I'm just partnered to a trans woman.

User avatar
Siggy
Regular Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Siggy » Mon May 24, 2010 9:30 pm

Disjointed, you don't have to be so shy. The rules of politeness are meant to reduce hurt feelings, not to prevent discussion. After all, how can people learn about transgender issues if they're always too afraid to discuss them? :D

The first rule about transgendered people is that they are the gender that they identify as. An FTM is male. An MTF is female.

As I understand it, one of the privileges I have as a cisgendered person is that the people I date don't have to agonize over their own sexual orientation. If you ever find yourself in a relationship with a transgendered person, I think it would best to simply take it as it is, and not use your orientation identity prescriptively.

Could I personally have a relationship with an FTM? Of course I could (insofar as I could have a relationship with any man). In general, I don't think I could even tell the difference between a transman and a cisman. Not every transsexual is obviously trans; it only seems that way because the "obvious" ones are the only ones that are visible to you. See the toupee fallacy.

The issue would be more complicated if the transgendered person were outside of the gender binary. For instance, if they were gender-neutral or androgynous, or something like that. Or if they present as the opposite gender that they were born as, but have not gone through all the transition processes. Then it would depend on what I'm attracted to in a man. Am I attracted to the male bodies? Or male personalities? Or anyone who presents as male? I don't know, because I have an incredibly poor grasp on my homosexuality, before I even get to the specifics.

Personally, I feel like the kind of genitalia would be the least important factor, even if it were a sexual relationship. That just doesn't seem terribly important at all. But I guess I could see how other people's priorities might be different from my own.

disjointed

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby disjointed » Tue May 25, 2010 6:02 am

Siggy thank you

thank you for seeing what i am trying to achieve. most who know me will know I speak straight but would probably be the last person on asexual forums who would have come and said...yes I could have an asexual relationship with a trans man.

I knew it would throw up a lot of different opinions but i hoped it would promote what even seems in asexual circles as something that is rarely talked about and certianly from my observations isn't talked about...although after grey ladys retorts i can understand why

grey lady..you see the comments as negative because you want to...in the same way if i said i would interacial date but would prefer a lighter shade of black, your tone is the type that would then accuse me of being racist because i didn't fancy the darker tone.i understand your personal experiences have given you anger but may i suggest...when you get support from the most unlikeliest of sources...even if you do not agree with the exact personal feeling....you don't kick them in the teeth

you saw " i wouldn't go with a chick with a dick" .....I saw that i would be more than happy to have an asexual relationship with a mtf but with one or two personal preferences. we all have them..some won't get involved with fat girls, thin girls, ginger headed girls , some with mental health issues, some with physical disabilities etc etc ...i saw yes i admire those who make the change and would admit to the change not putting me off

if you continue to suggest that unless it's a 100% your way or no midground then i can only say that not only did i find your comments offensive from someone that was offering support in the strongest possible way and an open frankness that many dare not say ..but with retorts like yours i can see why this question is so rarely raised or supported in here or aven

noscajk..well done..like me you are showing you would never rule out the idea but are honest to say there would be some wishes on compatability...again...not someone who is ignorant and saying never but someone who is supportive...thank you

siggy..I raised this because i felt far to often the trans members are largely unsupported and this question to be honest i have never seen raised or commented on and felt that it shouldn't be the "not seen subject" it appears to be

I had hoped to raise awareness that for many the trans/ hetro relationship can work and as such should not be seen as something that should be hid away...i must admit having had lady greys hostile reaction i genuinely wish I had never brought it up and doubt i will ever again

pianycist
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby pianycist » Tue May 25, 2010 8:42 am

disjointed wrote:I would have only two conditions..one they must clearly look like a female and two....only one of us should have a dick...me

This condition sounds like it would exclude many cis women. What is "looking female" is very arbitrary and differs by culture. Many Italian cis women naturally have facial hair. Many cis women have narrow hips, short eyelashes, and/or varying degrees of facial hair. Many Eastern-European cis men naturally have wide hips, long eyelashes and almost no facial hair--and therefore "look female," if we use hip size, eyelash length and amount of facial hair as the deciding factors of "looking" male or female.

disjointed wrote:yes I could have an asexual relationship with a trans man.

To be honest, I really can't tell if you are talking about an MTF person (a trans woman) in this quote or an FTM person (a trans man), because up until now you have been talking about trans people who identify as women. If you mean an MTF person, the correct way of referring to her is as a trans WOMAN. FTM=trans man; MTF=trans woman.

disjointed wrote:could you have a relationship with someone who has gone through the mtf/ftm process ?

I am FTM and asexual, and I have had a partner who had a problem with that. When we met, it was before I had come out as FTM. At the time, I identified as genderqueer, and I thought that my partner accepted that. He was a cis gay guy, and he never actually recognized that I wasn't a woman, despite that our relationship was asexual and I repeatedly told him I wasn't a woman. He called me by my former name, referred to me as female and emphatically called me "she" in public--and he would insist to me that I had a "girl face." He refused to let me kiss his cheek or hug him or hold his hand (in public or in private) because the fact that I had a vagina made him freak out. I eventually figured out that all of this stemmed from his insecurities with his own identity and had nothing to do with me (it wasn't something I could help), and I left him. Now, the people I love recognize me as male, because they are not insecure about their own identities as men who love men. When I am read as male in public, I am read as a cis male. It is not obvious that I am trans. Of all the trans people (including many MTF people) I have known, I would not have known most of them were trans if they had not told me.

To answer the original question of this post: Yes, I could have a relationship with a trans asexual person, and I have loved a trans asexual person. The only reason why I can't see myself in a relationship with a trans woman is because I can't see myself in a relationship with any woman--I like men.

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby KAGU143 » Tue May 25, 2010 9:16 am

Hi, pianycist, and welcome to Apositive.

This is an interesting topic and I honestly don't know what my reaction would be. It never occured to me when I was younger, and nowadays I am already in a relationship so I'm not looking. In a potential friendship it would not matter to me at all, and I am 100% sure of that.
I don't think it would be an automatic deal-breaker, though, even for a more serious relationship. I strongly suspect that it would be a case by case situation, and that the person themself would be much more important to me than whatever type of plumbing they might have been born with.
Ironically, I have come to realize that the closest description of my emotional makeup would be "gay male trapped in a female body." I have never seriously wanted to transition, though. I didn't know that such a thing was even possible until I was middle-aged, and by that time I couldn't see the point. I would still be asexual, regardless, so it wouldn't increase my options, relationship-wise, at least not enough to matter.
I have decided to embrace my personal eccentricity and to let that be enough.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
Puppy
New Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:19 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Puppy » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:48 am

I am in a relationship with a ftm asexual person. I was aware of my SO not quite identifying as female before we got together. Right now they're seriously considering transitioning, but nothing is set in stone yet. The way I see it is that I was and still am attracted to their personality. Which isn't gonna change. "Not-female" has been part of that personality the whole time. Only difference is that now they want other people to see them on the outside as they feel inside.

I'm panromantic so gender/sex really doesn't matter to me. Leaving because of the gender issues hasn't even crossed my mind. I probably would have thought of that a bit more if I wasn't pan, though. Right now we're seen (by strangers) as a lesbian couple. If/when my SO decides to go through with the transition process people will at some point start guessing and questioning us. But for me, personally, it's not an issue.

So... to answer your question, disjointed: Yes, I can love and be in a relationship with a ftm asexual :)
Last edited by Puppy on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It takes a fool to remain sane.

pianycist
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby pianycist » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:24 pm

disjointed wrote:you saw " i wouldn't go with a chick with a dick" .....I saw that i would be more than happy to have an asexual relationship with a mtf but with one or two personal preferences. we all have them..some won't get involved with fat girls, thin girls, ginger headed girls , some with mental health issues, some with physical disabilities etc etc ...i saw yes i admire those who make the change and would admit to the change not putting me off

"Personal preference" denotes a preference for partners who like certain music or read certain books (i.e., who reason in a certain way), not a preference for or against accidental qualities. To be more specific:
Wikipedia article for 'Essence' wrote:In philosophy, essence is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity. Essence is contrasted with accident: a property that the object or substance has contingently, without which the substance can still retain its identity.

When people seek out partners or friends for purposes other than pleasure, they look for people who reason in a certain way--people with a certain essence. The list of qualities you listed as "personal preferences" refer to accidental qualities of a person--qualities that, if changed, do not change the person's identity--and are thus illegitimate personal preferences to have. The shape of a person's genitalia, in the context of a relationship where sex does not occur, constitutes another such accidental quality and is thus an illegitimate preference to have.

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby KAGU143 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:36 am

Pianycist,
I'm not sure that your definition of personal preference would be accurate in all situations. A preference is simply a repeated pattern of choosing one type of thing over another type, nothing more.
The word PERSONAL is the key, here. It appears to me that you are attempting to inavalidate another person's preference in potential partners by saying that their personal standards are illigitimate because they are based on things which cannot be controlled.
I don't see why that should matter. Personal feelings cannot always be reasoned away, especially when they have formed gradually over a person's entire lifetime.

For example, I wouldn't want a close personal relationship with someone who had a speaking voice that I found unpleasant. Does that make my preference illigitimate?
I know how it would affect me. An unpleasant voice irritates me and makes me want to escape it or to make it stop. I don't see how that could possibly be good in a relationship.
I also do not wish to be in a close relationship with a smoker or someone who has bad hygiene or someone who is obese. Personal preference once again - in a potential partner, those things would repel me. In less serious relationships none of these preferences come into play.

I think it's just a mattter of knowing your own limitations and honestly evaluating any possible long-term complications before entering into a serious relationship.
How about a very large age difference between the potential partners, for example? Some people might be okay with it, others might not.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Jicragg
Established Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:42 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Jicragg » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:48 am

I don't know if I would date a transsexual. It wouldn't be a comfort issue I don't think. I think all in all I would be more comfortable with dating an mtf than an ftm for some reason. I really can't figure out why that difference has popped up. I do agree with Disjointed and have an understanding about the whole penis issue. If I dated a woman with a penis... there would be a limit to how comfortable I am with that knowledge. If I never see it or feel it I'll have no problem with it. That's merely a physical preference though. If the relationship was really strong that overall it probably wouldn't bother me to the extent that I feel the need to end the relationship. I've never been in that situation but that's just my thoughts on it.

The Gray Lady
New Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby The Gray Lady » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:48 pm

Oh, I forgot this topic existed for a while.

Honestly... when my gf is wearing clothes, I can't tell that she has a penis at all. Like, I'll specifically look for it, even feel around for it (she sometimes asks me if I can find it, to see how well she's tucking), and I can't find it. It really might as well not be there. And she is not small, either. So I think it's pretty unlikely that it would ever come up, in a nonsexual relationship.

And Disjointed, I'm reading the words you actually typed and what they imply. Whatever you intended by them doesn't matter. It's still pretty hurtful to go around saying things like that. Because believe it or not, intent is not magic. You go around calling trans women "men who have gone through the process of MTF" and you are going to alienate a lot of trans women because you are not recognizing their actual identity. You're still referring to them as the gender that they're NOT, and you honestly see yourself as being positive and accepting? Sorry, but you've still got a ways to go. You're not even being polite, even if you're trying to be, most likely because you didn't read up on it much at all. Please educate yourself about trans issues a little more.

The penis thing? That just confuses me. But referring to a trans woman as a man? That's unacceptable, you have got to stop doing that. You zero'd in on the penis thing without acknowledging the hurtful way you just denied a person their identity, which is what I was ACTUALLY rebuking you for. (And yes, I do think you should be rebuked for it, and no I am not going to mince words. How else will you learn that it is not only unpolite to say such a thing, but actually hurtful? I'm treating you like a grown-up. You can handle a little bit of criticism on this, don't pretend like you can't.)

I love how you compare my response to "kicking you in the teeth," because that is just so accurate. Honestly, I'd say it's more accurate to say that being misgendered is like being kicked in the teeth, not being called out on misgendering other people. If you're this defensive about being called out on this one little thing which doesn't even apply to you... Please imagine hearing a hundred hurtful little comments a day that don't accept your identity, and insist you are something that you're not. Most of the time people don't seem to get it when the case is just being referred to as another gender, so imagine that everybody thinks you're a cockroach or something (why yes, I have been reading Kafka recently, lol). Maybe that will help you to see the level of revulsion that trans people tend to have towards their physical bodies and inaccurate genders. And imagine how if you had an issue like that your whole life, how you might be triggered again by one seemingly innocuous comment, and sent into a major bout of depression.

What may not seem like a big deal to you, really IS to a trans person. Please also remember that when you talk about trans people, even in person, you do not necessarily know if there are any around you at any given time. You've probably met some trans people and never known it. Most of them pass just fine. So please be careful what you say.

I hope you will eventually give up on being defensive, understand that what you said is wrong, and refrain from saying it in the future. The most gracious thing to do would probably be to just say, "Oh, I see that now. Sorry," and move on... but I don't really care if you apologize or not.

This isn't a personal attack on you. Or on your preferences. I don't understand your preferences, and I'm really curious about what things would run through your mind that make you so uncomfortable with a woman having a penis, but... This really isn't about that. Honestly, I don't care whether you prefer trans women with or without penises. I'm just trying to explain to you why you're offending people, even though you seem to think you were being perfectly polite. It's a matter of showing you something that you wouldn't be able to see otherwise, because these issues don't affect you personally.

fridayoak
Regular Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:45 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby fridayoak » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:23 pm

I've given this a bit of thought before too. I would totally be fine with a mtf asexual partner (or even sexual to some degree if I was in love with them and we could find some compromise tho that would be pretty difficult I imagine). I find females phsically attractive so as long as they had what I think of as a feminie look and there was attraction then I wouldn't mind, and the penis thing wouldn't bother me. If we are both asexual then I shan't imagine we'll be using it much, and in terms of my feelings towards vagina/penis' then there isn't much difference, I'm not at all repulsed or turned on by either. The things I find attractive in the female form are not the genitals, breasts yes but they're not exactly the be all and end all either.
I wouldn't date a ftm as I don't find men attractive, but I guess if they had a more "boyish" rather than "butch" look then there would be a remote chance of it working if I truely fell in-love with their personality but that is highly unlikely.

But I don't think it's right to criticize people for not wanting it because of the penis factor, everyone has personal preferences/issues and they are upto the individual.

pianycist
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby pianycist » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:14 pm

KAGU143 wrote:Pianycist,
I'm not sure that your definition of personal preference would be accurate in all situations. A preference is simply a repeated pattern of choosing one type of thing over another type, nothing more.
The word PERSONAL is the key, here. It appears to me that you are attempting to inavalidate another person's preference in potential partners by saying that their personal standards are illigitimate because they are based on things which cannot be controlled.

I am arguing that some preferences are indeed illegitimate--those preferences for qualities that have no impact on interactions, such as deliberately selecting friends or asexual partners based on the shape of their genitalia.

KAGU143 wrote:For example, I wouldn't want a close personal relationship with someone who had a speaking voice that I found unpleasant. Does that make my preference illigitimate?
I know how it would affect me. An unpleasant voice irritates me and makes me want to escape it or to make it stop. I don't see how that could possibly be good in a relationship.
I also do not wish to be in a close relationship with a smoker or someone who has bad hygiene or someone who is obese. Personal preference once again - in a potential partner, those things would repel me. In less serious relationships none of these preferences come into play.

The things you list here as personal preferences are valid because they are things that would affect you in the context of an asexual or sexual relationship. The shape of a person's genitalia in the context of a relationship where genitalia are not involved--such as an asexual relationship or friendship--is an illegitimate preference to have because it has no effect on the relationship/friendship. Clothes cover genitalia. The shape of a person's genitalia is a legitimate preference only in the context of interactions where sex may or will occur.

fridayoak wrote:But I don't think it's right to criticize people for not wanting it because of the penis factor, everyone has personal preferences/issues and they are upto the individual.

I am not talking about sexual relationships or personal preferences in sexual partners. I'm okay with people not wanting to have sex with a person based on genitalia--I understand that some people are not into certain genital configurations in their sexual activity. What I am not okay with is setting out a specific criterion for the shape of a friend or asexual partner's genitalia--gender might matter, but genitalia don't matter in a relationship where the partners don't have sex.

I'd think it was really creepy of someone to be so fixated on my lack of penis (I am FTM) that it prevented them from holding my hand, hugging me or being my friend. Actually, that happened to me. He tried to defend himself by citing his "personal preference" to be in asexual relationships with guys that have penises, as opposed to guys without. He wasn't able to give a coherent response to me when I asked what genitals matter in the context of a relationship where the partners don't have sex, beyond repeating how freaked out he was about the whole concept of a male-identified person without a penis. I originally entered the relationship with him identifying as genderqueer (which he said he was okay with); when I began identifying as transmasculine and asked to be called "he," he refused to acknowledge my identity as male and refused to allow me to educate him. I broke up with him for being so disrespectful of my identity. We are not friends.

User avatar
Puppy
New Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:19 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Puppy » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:43 am

pianycist wrote:
KAGU143 wrote:Pianycist,
What I am not okay with is setting out a specific criterion for the shape of a friend or asexual partner's genitalia--gender might matter, but genitalia don't matter in a relationship where the partners don't have sex.

Did disjointed specifically state they wouldn't be having sex in the potential/teorethical relationship? :think: 'Cause the title didn't specify "asexual relationship", it said "with ... asexual". Which isn't the same. Couples of 2 asexuals can have sex (we do, for example).
I'm not saying gender/genitalia should or shouldn't matter in either case, just pointing out the difference...
It takes a fool to remain sane.

fridayoak
Regular Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:45 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby fridayoak » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:27 am

Well he does mention "an asexual relationship" but anyway even if they don’t have sex it could still be an issue in an asexual relationship. You can see and be aware of your partner’s genitals even if you never have sex with them, especially if you have a live-in relationship and share the same bed daily. You are quite likely to notice a penis when your partner is getting changed and when you spend every night in the same bed I think it’s quite likely you’ll notice the difference between whether your partner has a vagina or penis at some point.

Some people may find the sight or shape of the penis unattractive/repulsive and that has nothing to do with sexual relations, so whilst it doesn’t bother me I can’t see how you can say it’s illegitimate to other people. What about an asexual that has a preference for bigger breasted women even if they are not going to spend much time seeing the woman naked? Is this illegitimate in your view? They might be more noticeable than genitals but a penis is still going to be apparent to the partner at some point, so it’s not that much difference, just on a smaller scale. If someone is turned off, repulsed by someone with a penis for whatever reason, then I quite rightly wouldn’t expect them to enter a relationship with someone with one, in conclusion I don’t agree with your definition of “legitimate”, as if it’s a problem to someone then it’s a legitimate issue in my book for the person involved, telling them it doesn’t matter cos you won’t be having sex isn’t right. I understand on the friendship issue, as it’s obviously irrelevant but in a romantic relationship then I’d argue it’s legitimate as it could lead to problems for the couple down the line.

User avatar
Siggy
Regular Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Siggy » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:44 pm

"Illegitimate" is kind of an ambiguous word. "Hurtful" and "irrational" might be more appropriate. It's a preference worth ditching, if possible.

disjointed

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby disjointed » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:21 am

I deliberatly have avoided coming back into this subject till I had cooled down a bit

gray..I care not wether you personally feel it was hurtfull.. and as to your picking me up on every definition I felt your input was negative and agrressive..as to it not being a big deal to me..look who started the post

I sought to raise awareness of hetro asexuals having a loving relationship with a trans gender..you saw..he has got all the terms wrong and has a personal prefernce so I will attack..it's reactions like this that see many trans gender issues left alone or buried in the dark..even on a liberal site as this

piancyst..what a silly thing to say that choices are illigitamate..who and what i share my life with is my right

I thought I made it quite clear that as we asexuals and was on an asexual website and I said I would have no trouble in an asexual relationship..that sex was not even a mention

if I met a woman..who later revelied that she was a trans a number of things would be important to me..and only me..lets be honest..I am the one in a relationship should I chose to be..so anyone elses opinion is..just that

if she didn't tell me quite early..i would question her honesty

If she who used to be a he still has a penis..then for me it would be a no..i am a bread and butter man..all or nothing

now take from that take what you will..for me, it is I am still open to the idea of dating a mtf..I don't see that many stepping forward and admitting that

now shoot me down if you wish for having a personal preferrence of who my partner maybe

but know this..shoot down your allies..and all you have is yourself

User avatar
Siggy
Regular Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Siggy » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:19 pm

Honestly, disjointed, you are a little too self-congratulatory. :P Maybe it's just me, with my really high standards for what constitutes queer-friendly or trans-friendly, but this is how your posts look to me:

"I've been thinking about this a lot, and I really don't think that we should ostracize gays so much. I know people will attack me for this, but I think that if a friend told me he was gay, I would continue to be his friend. Sure, it sort of disgusts me, and I would prefer a straight friend, but gay people are people too, and I don't see it as a good reason to break a friendship."

I hope that helps you understand why your statements didn't get a positive reaction. Did you know that a full 20% of AVEN (according to that 2008 survey) are not cisgender? I expect a certain level of trans-friendliness, and I guess that you're meeting those expectations, but you sure aren't exceeding them.

I would hope that if you actually found yourself in such a relationship, with a transwoman with a penis, you wouldn't let that be a showstopper. I think it would be really demoralizing to her, and would not do you any good either. But obviously, it is your choice. It takes two to make a relationship, and therefore only one to break it. Anyways, I think we've all had enough of this hypothetical.

disjointed

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby disjointed » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:10 am

Honestly, disjointed, you are a little too self-congratulatory. Maybe it's just me, with my really high standards for what constitutes queer-friendly or trans-friendly, but this is how your posts look to me:


Then I can assure you that you are wrong and to be honest sig am started to get a bit pissed off..right royaly

and using a gay scenario is just trying to continue to justify your ignorance of those who offer support..look back through this thread, you will see quite a few who..last time i checked we are allowed to have a personal preference with whom they date without your permission or downlooking style..but more importantly said they support and would not rule out a relationship with a trans..are they self congratulatory people too? are you aware of the pious approach you are taking and pushing away those too?

What I saw was that trans issues in here and in Aven rarely get the input other than from trans to a point even within a liberal community such as asexuals..it seems to be largely unspoken

within that even more the discussion around trans and hetro relationships to be honest was like the needle within a haystack..i felt that was wrong..and like asexuality unless discussion makes others aware then it goes the way of the shadowy thing that is taboo to talk about

I again felt this was wrong so like on aven..despite some thinking I would be the last allie..I have pushed trans awareness..and even within this subject have said..i have a personal preference but would never rule out a relationship with a trans mtf

From that some precious lovies have jumped on my wish for a personal preferrence within a relationship rather than raising awareness and trying to bring things into the forefront and show that enlarge we should be talking about trans issues more.

where the precious have seen I wouldn't date a chick with a dick...I saw yes I would have a loving relationship with a transwoman but I would have a personal preference..I saw positive..some saw headlines

self congratulory? How arrogant..However I will give you some perspective..From this day forward..you have lost a avid vocal supporter and will never see me comment on any trans issues in any place again

fridayoak
Regular Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:45 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby fridayoak » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:57 am

I think Siggy is being way too harsh. Many people have trouble with the correct terminology but this doesn’t mean their heart is in the wrong place. I often get confused with the terms “trans-man” and “trans-woman” and which is which. Plus I only recently knew what “cis-gendered” meant cos lets face it most people don’t use it in everyday life. Saying 20% of Aven is non- cisgendered is fine but like Dis says the other 80% rarely get involved in such gender discussions. Actually I was very naive of trans-gender issues before I joined Aven and when I did try to get some understanding by entering a thread about transexualism I basically got my head bitten off by someone who seemed to take what I was asking as a personal attack, even though I was just giving my current opinion and made it clear that I was trying to gain more understanding. Luckily others on the thread recognised this and were more friendly to me but still it put me off the whole issue to be honest and I haven’t got involved since.

Dis has his only style of writing, but people are different, not all come with a degree in social sciences to their names and I think people need to remember that a little bit of error in terminology doesn’t mean they are the enemy.

User avatar
Siggy
Regular Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Siggy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:43 pm

I didn't say I thought Disjointed's heart was in the wrong place. It would be better to say that his support is half-hearted. It's commendable, in the same sense that supporting women's suffrage is commendable. Disjointed, you get a big gold star! Is that what you wanted?

Look, I understand that it's awfully hard to get trans-101 lessons because there are so many PC pitfalls placed seemingly at random. But when people point out that you made a mistake, getting defensive is the wrong response. Threatening to withdraw support is the wrong response. Frankly, it undercuts your message of "wow, look at how tolerant I am".

Your initial post used the wrong gender descriptions... let's move on. Your personal preferences, though you have the right to have them, and may not have control over them, could be hurtful... let's move on. Mistakes were made, and that's okay, as long as we move on.

Jicragg
Established Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:42 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Jicragg » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:00 am

I think the friend example doesn't work. Being in a romantic relationship requires a lot of intimacy compared to the average friendship. If Disjointed is uncomfortable being that intimate with that kind of person that isn't his fault. He didn't sit there and decide 'I don't want to like being in a relationship with ____ type of people.'

User avatar
Pamcakes
New Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:30 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby Pamcakes » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:19 pm

Sexual advisory:

I could be romantically interested in anyone nice, clever, and pretty with a penis, but I'm afraid either he or she would really have to have a penis.
I hope that doesn't sound shallow; I suspect it does. I just...I really like cock, and I should be very sad to give it up. :oops:

P.
...trid fo eripme ym, lla ti evah dluoc uoy dnA

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby KAGU143 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:48 pm

I wanted to post a picture of a really pretty rooster here, with a caption, but I decided to spare you. LOL!
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
ninny
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby ninny » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:46 pm

Well, I am in a relationship with a transguy!

Really I didn't give a damn what he was gender-wise, FTM, MTF, biological male, female, intersex, you name it. I was interested in the person, end of. Some might say that makes me Pan-romantic, but I'm not really into all that labelling stuff.

I don't know if my (our) being Asexual makes the relationship any 'easier'. Personally I feel my Asexuality opens up more relationship opportunities since i'm not into the whole genitalia thing, but I am aware some people are very much set in their romantic orientation, but I do wonder if it effects (affects, I have no idea) how people stand on the trans issue. I am aware that how well a trans person passes can be a factor. My partner passes 99.9999999999999999999% of the time, so I guess really that makes it easier for me to regard him as male, but really, if he didn't pass I dont think that would stop me from being with him.

Personally I think if I were Sexual id be happy to be with a trans person. Having said that...not sure how i'd be with an MTF (in an Asexual relationship) I dont know if thats because i'm not really romantically interested in girls or because of the fact they're MTF.

Meh, i'm just more attracted to transmen if im honest

GoAllyGoGo
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby GoAllyGoGo » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:33 am

I believe I could be in a relationship with a ftm asexual. I'm not attracted to women and I consider mtf transfolk to be women and have yet to find myself attracted to one.

One of the first things I noticed when I came into the asexual community was the higher proportion of transgenders and genderqueers and that I found the ftm folk to be rather aesthetically attractive. Now, if they also just happen to have a great personality and one I'm attracted to, well then why not? You know, other than the fact that I'm just not really a relationship person.

Plus, since the whole genitalia thing matters not to me, I don't have to worry about that factor.

User avatar
ily
Regular Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Could you love/have a relationship with a mtf/ftm asexual?

Postby ily » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:21 pm

My response would be similar to Ninny and Ally's. While I'm more attracted to men, I wouldn't discount a relationship with a woman. So yeah, considering I'm pretty apathetic about gender, it wouldn't matter to me what genitalia someone had. I mean, damn, it's hard enough to find potential romantic partners as an asexual, they could be from Mars for all I care. But, maybe I can only say that because I experience romantic attraction pretty weakly.