Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
PiF
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby PiF » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:26 pm

The wether you like it or not approach Michael displays is indicative of the lgbt bias

My worry is... By the time we do get more sexuals on board .. The activists lgbt bias may have entrenched us so far down the lgbt cul de sac of visibility that will be our defining label

It will be almost impossible to shake off the incorrect branding to a point where ... Asexual? Told you that you were gay will be an automatic assumption for all asexuals by non asexuals

And in many ways the insistence by the lgbt activists that the lgbt be our mothership... Who could blame anyone for thinking asexuals are all gay

flergalwit
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby flergalwit » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:47 pm

PiF wrote:how many times can the largest asexual site not ban pedophillic inputs but then insist asexuals are not pedophiles?

I think you are quite capable of answering that one PiF. (Hint: trying replacing the word 'paedophiles' with 'sexuals', and see if you can answer it then.)

The absolute last thing I want is to get into a discussion here about paedophilia (though I will if I have to). Let's just say, your evaluation of the situation at AVEN is utterly at odds with my own, as far as this topic is concerned.

PiF
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby PiF » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:35 pm

I did expect you to not answer my last points given I am spot on and thankfully you didn't let me down michael

You know as well as I that if wrongfull alignment and branding happens and continues to happen.... It is almost impossible to ever correct

The activists who are almost entirely lgbt biased care not for the long term damage to asexuality as long as they get an invite at the lgbt table as individuals

12 pieces of silver may suit some more than others but if that's okay with others I'll stick with just the one agenda.. Not lgbt... But asexuality

flergalwit
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby flergalwit » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:46 pm

PiF wrote:You know as well as I that if wrongfull alignment and branding happens and continues to happen.... It is almost impossible to ever correct

There is no wrongful alignment. Many asexuals consider themselves part of LGBT. Therefore we have a presence in LGBT groups. That is a *correct* alignment.

PiF wrote:12 pieces of silver may suit some more than others but if that's okay with others I'll stick with just the one agenda.. Not lgbt... But asexuality

For the very final time, no-one has ever said you should get involved with LGBT.

PiF
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby PiF » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:57 pm

The many you claim is not the many you would hope or would like others to think there are

And those of us who want nothing to do with the lgbt will always have that wrongfull association aligned with us for no other reason than activists who took us down the road that no one asked them to do and it has been thrust upon us wether we wanted it or not

The damage lgbt activists will do to asexuality will be almost impossible to undo unless thier napoleonic syndrome is challenged

When you get a poll of all the asexual forums agreeing by the majority to become a franchise of the lgbt for a quick visibility junkie fix.. Then you might have a case... But we both know that will never happen and for very good reasons

Because asexuality as a whole wants to define itself on it's own and proud to be who we are ..and not be eating crumbs from the lgbt table like some poor needy lapdog

[quote="flergalwit]For the very final time, no-one has ever said you should get involved with LGBT.[/quote]

when these activists whose direction is more lgbt than asexuality go with thier begging bowl of visibility to the lgbt...they have involved all asexuals wether we wanted them too or not..and that is why they are dangerous to the asexual cause who has enough trouble with making others aware of what asexuality is without any additional confusion of a wrongfull lgbt association

by such things as asexuals appearing as asexuals and not lgbt biased people who happen to be asexuals..and such things as pride marches..we are increasing the risk with out a doubt..as the public visibility of asexuality being nothing more than a accronym in an allreday confused group such as the lgbt

and NOT as a unique group with a unique perspective and valid within our own right

flergalwit
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby flergalwit » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:09 am

PiF wrote:When you get a poll of all the asexual forums agreeing by the majority to become a franchise of the lgbt for a quick visibility junkie fix.. Then you might have a case... But we both know that will never happen and for very good reasons

Why on Earth would that count for anything? These forums are just full of 6 month asexuals remember - who are more interested in anime and pokemon than asexuality. Why would their view matter?

There have been numerous surveys on AVEN and elsewhere on the LGBT question, often returning contradictory results. The only thing you can say really is that the community is split on the issue.

PiF wrote:by such things as asexuals appearing as asexuals and not lgbt biased people who happen to be asexuals..and such things as pride marches..we are increasing the risk with out a doubt..as the public visibility of asexuality being nothing more than a accronym in an allreday confused group such as the lgbt

and NOT as a unique group with a unique perspective and valid within our own right

All groups that appear within LGBT retain their own identity. Bisexual people don't become gay by being included. Trans people don't either. Neither do intersex or genderqueer people. Each group has their own unique identity, and appearing as part of the LGBT umbrella doesn't erase that. Why should asexuals be any different?

The fact we appear in pride marches under our own name - A-S-E-X-U-A-L - and wave around placards and leaflets making it clear we don't experience sexual attraction - should make it rather clear that we're not just another word for gay.

The only correct association that is being made by inclusion is that we are a sexual (or gender) minority. And that is true: we *are* a sexual minority orientation. It would look downright odd if we never appeared in LGBT groups, as every other sexual and gender minority I know of (well with one other exception, which I don't want to talk about here) does so.

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Olivier
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Re: Are David Jay and the activists doing more harm than good?

Postby Olivier » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:30 pm

Perhaps relevant: The "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras", one of the world's largest pride marches, is no more.

From next year, the march will simply be known as the "Sydney Mardi Gras", because the organisers have said that they want to promote the fact that idea that tolerance of diversity, and pride in non-normativity, goes far beyond just "gay and lesbian", and wanted to change the name of the parade to reflect what had already become reality.