When any publicity is bad publicity

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
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KAGU143
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby KAGU143 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:04 pm

We can always agree to disagree and still be friends.

I believe that the definition of asexuality is perfectly clear. If it were as muddled as you think I suspect that we would be getting a LOT more resistance from the medical community, but instead they are taking it very seriously. We must be doing something right.

And I have to say this just because it made me smile: You actually confirmed my statement instead of contradicting it.
When somebody is willing to have sex for the sake of their partner, that is exactly the kind of situation that I meant. I don't mean that someone is holding a gun to their head or that their reason for having sex isn't a very good one - only that they would be just as happy without it if the relationship didn't require it.
If they WANT to have sex with their partner just for the sake of having sex then they aren't asexual.

Having sex does not make an asexual into a sexual any more than having sex with a woman makes a gay man straight. It's what a person WANTS, as defined by what they feel drawn toward, that determines their orientation.
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:11 am

KAGU143 wrote:We can always agree to disagree and still be friends.


Absolutely, I've always been appreciative of the way you Nancy and Kæth have allowed this site into evolve into a largley adult one that allows more open opinion unlike aven which is more like kiddy winks pressing report buttons saying mods, mods ..they are saying something i DON'T LIKE TELL EM OFF .

KAGU143 wrote:I believe that the definition of asexuality is perfectly clear. If it were as muddled as you think I suspect that we would be getting a LOT more resistance from the medical community, but instead they are taking it very seriously. We must be doing something right.


Well ish...I'm happy to be corrected on the following..my understanding when you say medical community you meant the mental health arena of medicine. I seem to remember asexuality is still classified under the drm as a mental category rather than a orientation category although that is trying to be corrected. I've never been a fan of the mental health community believeing most of it is made up of over thinkers and debators whose sole job exists to talk bolloxs (which i can do for free) and also rip apart the accepted just to create a different so they can say they did and can

KAGU143 wrote:And I have to say this just because it made me smile: You actually confirmed my statement instead of contradicting it.
When somebody is willing to have sex for the sake of their partner, that is exactly the kind of situation that I meant. I don't mean that someone is holding a gun to their head or that their reason for having sex isn't a very good one - only that they would be just as happy without it if the relationship didn't require it.
If they WANT to have sex with their partner just for the sake of having sex then they aren't asexual.


well of course, others are right sometime too :lol:

KAGU143 wrote:Having sex does not make an asexual into a sexual any more than having sex with a woman makes a gay man straight. It's what a person WANTS, as defined by what they feel drawn toward, that determines their orientation.


and we were nearly there :lol: ...orientation to most people will mean from birth till death born that way..now if what your saying is that is now open for 50 shades of grey then you can understand why others away from the asexual bubble do not understand. I'm in it and don't agree with that

Actions do not make you asexual, orientation does. if it were actions then it might explain why so many wrongly identify and why out message is more of a soup than a nice clear pane of glass

for me of interest now I mentioned two things and both have been ignored ..i mentioned because they raised two key points..the confusion about what is and isn't in the researcher/asexual convo and the teenager who declared asexuality 5 minutes after finding it

one relies on clear clarification and the other questions how long is genuine or just simply not found out what they are yet but pre-emptively declare 100%

I suspect they have both been ignored as to investigate further would show the weakness of the fluid argument and highlight how many identify wrongly as asexual

so I'll sum up if I may as I will be off line again now till the 7th march...An asexual person is someone who does not experience sexual attraction, asexuality is an orientation and orientations are from birth till death

if you are not the above then you are probably not an asexual but you are welcome to call yourself one

If we are to correctly portray and promote what asexuality is outside of the non real world bubble of patting ourselves on the back worl...then we need to be clear, concise and accurate and like a good parent, always be prepared to make the difficult decision and say no when it is correct to do so to make the thing right.

anyway..see you in about 10 days..tataa

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FalconEagle
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby FalconEagle » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:02 am

Any publicity is bad publicity at this point as it will always point the curious public towards AVEN. The first thing they'll do is flock to AVEN and leave with a warped view of asexuality, the first thing they'll see is one of the many threads that discuss how disgusting sex or touch is and they'll leave thinking that all asexuals are oversensitive timid sex-hatin' teens

There's no winning really, if it's not AVEN they stumble across, it's some self-centered blog on Tumblr or WordPress that pushes the use of "ace"

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby Tanwen » Mon May 20, 2013 1:54 pm

Human beings are so diverse in every other respect, how can you have a 'one size fits all' definition? As we both know - asexuals are capable of having sex - does that make us non-asexuals? How is your grandchild, by the way?

As for Lisa, her interview on TV the following morning was really good, I don't think she came across as a sex repulsed sexual, perhaps because her description of feelings after having sex for the first time were similar to my own... oh, was that what all the fuss was about?Can we do something more interesting now?
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:42 pm

Sorry for the delay in replying, been overseas for a while but back again

In regards to dj being bisexual micheal I have always been of the opinion he always was anyway but saw this on the rumpus blog in 2011 when he said... Jay: I’ve kissed men but I’ve never really been very physically intimate with a man.

There is enough vageity within that to be deliberately uninformative and avoiding a fuller explanation in the whole of the remaining interview.

Anyway, as the original article was yesterday's chip paper some time ago I'll finish this one here and start some new threads over the next few days.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:16 am

Welcome back. I've also recently got back from overseas (California in my case).
PiF wrote:In regards to dj being bisexual micheal I have always been of the opinion he always was anyway but saw this on the rumpus blog in 2011 when he said... Jay: I’ve kissed men but I’ve never really been very physically intimate with a man.

There is enough vageity within that to be deliberately uninformative and avoiding a fuller explanation in the whole of the remaining interview.

I've entirely forgotten this conversation and haven't re-read everything so I don't know what you are responding to. But...

...why in the world would that cast any doubt at all on DJ's asexuality?

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:22 am

I don't care what ever his sexuality is but am a great fan of being honest. The push from the Aven hierarchy to align with the lgbt comes from most of those at the top being lgbt positive through acts,sexuality or beliefs. But I've never really been vety physicaal intimate with a man indicates he has but doesn't see it as such. Our leader kids himself on honesty when he is unable to be so with himself.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:11 am

PiF wrote:But I've never really been vety physicaal intimate with a man indicates he has but doesn't see it as such. Our leader kids himself on honesty when he is unable to be so with himself.

Oh wow. I didn't realise that was how it worked...

Well PiF. I'll let you in on a little secret. I haven't ever been very physically intimate with a man either. Or a woman. So I guess I'm bisexual too. No wait: I haven't been very physically intimate with agender/neutrois/genderqueer people either. So actually I'm pansexual. Except! I forgot to mention I've never been very physically intimate with animals either. Or the Eiffel Tower. So I'm actually a pansexual objectophile zoosexual. How exciting!

Oh yeah and I also haven't been very physically intimate with... oh wait no, I'll stop there.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:02 am

Michael tut tut, You know that is not what I put, I said

"but saw this on the rumpus blog in 2011 when he said... Jay: I’ve kissed men but I’ve never really been very physically intimate with a man." Now this is quite clear politicians speak for "I have but not on a regular basis" rather than a simple no

I know you and dj share the same way with words in that vagueity is a problem for you both

As to this "So I'm actually a pansexual objectophile zoosexual. How exciting!" I'm glad you feel comfortable shagging animals in the kitchen whilst looking at other things ...according to aven you must now be an asexual 8-)

I did notice and not for the first time whilst demanding answers from others you avoid most of others inputs which is weird as a professional mathmatician you demand exacts but then on the other hand are comfortable to forget those exacts when it comes to the wrong definaitions and quite comforteable with a vagueity such as "spectrum and greys/semis/demis"

It would seem were I offer consistant determined and honest opinion you seem to offer the cake and eat it or do as I say not as I do

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:12 am

Hang on a sec - where did the kitchen come into this? Shagging animals is one thing - but in the kitchen??? Ew...

===
Re: not addressing points. I tend to hop on apositive between other things these days, so I do miss stuff sometimes. Which points of yours would you most like me to address?

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:53 pm

Kitchen....Pansexual

pansexual shags pots and pans
auto sexual shags cars
zoophile means they keep files on zoos
objectophile means today a man was arrested for sticking his cock in a crack in the pavement.

I hope that explains ...although judging by avens all legs open policy any of those could be asexual 8-)

perhaps the points where you said no men and dj did not quite say the same thing?

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:09 pm

PiF wrote:Kitchen....Pansexual

pansexual shags pots and pans

Ah thanks. That one escaped me!

PiF wrote:perhaps the points where you said no men and dj did not quite say the same thing?

I'm still not sure what point I'm supposed to address but I'll assume it's this:

PiF wrote:"but saw this on the rumpus blog in 2011 when he said... Jay: I’ve kissed men but I’ve never really been very physically intimate with a man." Now this is quite clear politicians speak for "I have but not on a regular basis" rather than a simple no

No, I don't think it's politicians' speak for that. I think what he means is that he *has* kissed men but he hasn't gone much further than that. Kissing is physically intimate but he has never done anything *very* physically intimate, such as sexual intercourse.

I still don't see what this has to do with his alleged bisexuality. You understand just as well as anyone else that behaviour is not orientation; no-one is saying you're heterosexual because you've had sex with women before...

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:14 pm

you see it as no..I see it very much as a welllll not realllllly... but

Now as I said before..I know I 'm straight and straight men do not kiss other men in a sexual way

As I said before I have no issue with him being Bi BUT...I suspect dj is enough of a politician to know if he says he sleeps with men and being the "celebrity" face of aven , he knows if he was to be honest and dislose his bisexuality then he would lay ammunition to those who say asexuality is a gay thing.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby Ciri » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:30 pm

But if that's the case, then wouldn't it help asexuality become more accepted within the LBGT community? A straight guy could be experimenting if he kisses another dude in a sexual way. I've done it too, ok it ended in an argument over socks but still, experimentation. There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college.
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:35 pm

PiF wrote:you see it as no..

What? It's not a "no". It's a "yes".

Yes: he has kissed men, but he hasn't had sex with men.

If you think asexuals don't kiss men, then why should I accept you as asexual given you've had sex with women?

Ciri wrote:But if that's the case, then wouldn't it help asexuality become more accepted within the LBGT community?

Oh geeze Cy. Talk about stirring hornets' nests...

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby Ciri » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:40 pm

fuzzlebutt wrote:why should I accept you as asexual given you've had sex with women?

OOH. Because this is aPOSITIVE! :D

Hornets are fun.
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm

flergalwit wrote:
PiF wrote:you see it as no..

What? It's not a "no". It's a "yes".

Yes: he has kissed men, but he hasn't had sex with men.

Ciri wrote:But if that's the case, then wouldn't it help asexuality become more accepted within the LBGT community?

Oh geeze Cy. Talk about stirring hornets' nests...


On these two things, it would have been very easy to say just that, I've kissed men but never carried out any sexual acts with them but I believe be chose his words carefully to avoid being honest..you have the ability to communicate with him Michael and should you chose to ask him this question

On the rumpus interview your reply gave the impression of "I have had sex with men but it's not something I do regulary.... Could you clarify your comment.... I'd be interested to know his reply 8-)

Ciri... The lgbt once you leave the college arena.... Are very protective of their "we are a persecuted tribe" mentality that is why you see so many asexuals say " I don't understand it, they were welcoming in college but now .....

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 pm

PiF wrote:On these two things, it would have been very easy to say just that, I've kissed men but never carried out any sexual acts with them but I believe be chose his words carefully to avoid being honest..you have the ability to communicate with him Michael and should you chose to ask him this question

On the rumpus interview your reply gave the impression of "I have had sex with men but it's not something I do regulary.... Could you clarify your comment.... I'd be interested to know his reply 8-)

But PiF I don't agree that he gave the impression you say he did. I think he gave the opposite impression, namely that he's never had sex with men though he has kissed them.

Why don't you ask him the question if you think this is important? You have the ability to communicate with him too you know. I don't know if you have his personal email address but if not you can send an email to info@asexuality.org. Emails sent here arrive with the PT + DJ, though we usually leave messages personally addressed to DJ for him to answer.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby KAGU143 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:41 am

PiF, as many problems as I have with DJ, I don't think I've ever been given any serious reason to question him being asexual. (Occasional idle speculations, yes, but nothing serious.) Nor do I consider him to be intentionally dishonest.
I think that the vast majority of asexuals, including myself, would be diagnosed with some sort of personality disorder if we were tested; and he is no different. Keep in mind that I've known him since 2004 and have spent time with him on several occasions. My most lasting impression of him is that he is emotionally shallow, and that he primarily values his relationships based on what he thinks other people can/will do for him - not on what he can do for them. (Narcissistic, maybe? Who knows.) I could be wrong, but, if so, I think it's only a matter of degree and not that I'm completely off-course.
His graph (seen in his movie) that portrayed his ideas of intimacy made me shudder, but I think it was dead-on honest and accurate insofar as it illustrated his own actual feelings.
Like many men (and a good number of women, too), he uses language more to manipulate others than to communicate with them, and in that sense he is very much the consummate politician.

Anyway, kissing another man is neither here nor there. What's the big deal? I tried kissing a woman back when I was in junior high. 'Didn't get much out of it, but I gave it the good ol' college try and did my best. At the time I was thinking that I should probably get some practice in case I ever had to kiss a guy. 'Turns out that I just don't like most kinds of kissing, period, and the other person's sex or gender has nothing to do with it. I never would have known that if I hadn't tried it, though.
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:24 am

Thanks for the replies, Michael.... knowing dj's appetite for self promotion, using political avoiding buzzwords and previous experieince of "yes we know we need to change and I will do it" when in truth he's as likely to stick his cock in a pencil sharpener than meet the change needed...Thanks for the suggestion but I will probably pass on asking him .....as when aven and dj are mentioned in the same sentence ..they are like a premature ejaculation...dissapointing

Nancy..I either have written it wrong or you have read it wrong...I'm not questioning dj's asexuality, I'm saying I think he is hiding the fact he is bisexual because he knows it will give some adage to doubters to say look...asexuality is a teen gay thing

Big deal about a man kissing another man? in regards to man love there is no deal, I have no issue with it...where my concern is that the public face of aven and the way aven operates largely under the auspices of the owner whom I feel is being less than honest about whom he is sexually .....and that might explain why the message from aven is not mostly about asexuality but instead about sexuality.

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:36 am

PiF, it might be an idea if you were to address me by "flerg" or "flergalwit" (or "fuzzlebutt" if you're Cy) now that we once again have another poster called Michael.

PiF wrote:Thanks for the suggestion but I will probably pass on asking him

Your choice.

PiF wrote:Nancy..I either have written it wrong or you have read it wrong...I'm not questioning dj's asexuality, I'm saying I think he is hiding the fact he is bisexual

You cannot be simultaneously asexual and bisexual.
Bisexual = sexually attracted to men and women
Asexual = sexually attracted to no-one

If DJ is bisexual he is not asexual and vice versa.

Maybe you meant to suggest he is biromantic?

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby PiF » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:35 am

Point taken on the name

Agreed on the term also although puzzled why he should romantically like pens

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby flergalwit » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:08 am

Let's see if our USAian friends get that one... (I do not believed they use the genericised trademark b*** to refer to a type of pen over there but I may be mistaken.)

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby jmb » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:20 am

flergalwit wrote:Let's see if our USAian friends get that one... (I do not believed they use the genericised trademark b*** to refer to a type of pen over there but I may be mistaken.)


It's not common over here, no. Though, some of us are educated in British culture and colloquialisms :halo:
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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby FalconEagle » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:47 am

I used to "share" articles on Facebook, for visibility n'all, but I've since stopped... mostly because these articles are plain embarrassing lately (it's not the editor's or author's fault in many cases), generally the articles that avoid interviewing an asexual are the best articles. But then again, I'd rather stick my ass in a bacon slicer than read the Daily Mail or any of those insane right-wing British newspapers anyway

That Daily Mail article was a God damn joke, I've never felt so humiliated or embarrassed in my life and I wasn't even in the damn thing

jmb wrote:
flergalwit wrote:Let's see if our USAian friends get that one... (I do not believed they use the genericised trademark b*** to refer to a type of pen over there but I may be mistaken.)


It's not common over here, no. Though, some of us are educated in British culture and colloquialisms :halo:

Biro originates from a Hungarian surname, "Bíró"... I think the genericized trademark was actually registered Argentina or something

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Re: When any publicity is bad publicity

Postby jmb » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:39 pm

Do I even want to ask what the Daily Fail has done now?

(Not that I really like any media, but the DM takes the cake.]
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