Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

For discussion of general issues pertaining to asexuality.
PiF
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Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:10 am


Michael

Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby Michael » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:12 am

Interesting. I used to be a volunteer counsellor for those guys for a couple of years (or was it three?), since actual therapy beyond the CBT stuff is a little hard to come by on the NHS. What MIND is giving is from the layman's perspective, and there seems to be a tendency to brand any behaviour as a personality disorder. It's not surprising to see this.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby Ciri » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:16 pm

Haha. One symptom of something obviously must mean that's the cause of your "sexual issues". According to the DSM-V (as I understand it), to have any PD you need to get so many symptoms of PD in general AND have x amount of symptoms of the specific PD. I'm not saying this isn't an explanation because in a small number, it probably is.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:56 pm

I used it to highlight just how easy it is to claim asexuality when in fact most will not be and this was an example of why not

As to it being the laymans perspective...why not? the so called professionals make up terms almost every other day, no wonder why so many falsely align

Michael

Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby Michael » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:00 pm

I used it to highlight just how easy it is to claim asexuality when in fact most will not be and this was an example of why not


Now I see... The problem is MIND's extremely simplistic definition, in my view, is actually much closer to the real-world meaning of asexuality than AVEN's. If someone matched that description without specifically being diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder, on balance I'd say that person was genuinely asexual.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby FalconEagle » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 pm

I'd honestly be more surprised if I wasn't schizoid

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 am

I would agree lol

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:47 am

A slight update and it might hit some points..probably more than some previously thought

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/schizoid.html

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby FoxMulder » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:17 pm

That article looks like a bunch of rubbish to me. Many years ago a guy at a place I worked said we live in an individualistic society. I broke into a fit of hysterical laughter :lol: , followed by stomach cramps that lasted 2 days. None of you believe that rubbish, do you? If you do, let me know and I'll sell you some Enron or Bre-X shares for "only" $1000 each! In every society there's pressure to conform, and if you don't fit the so called norm there's the perception there's something wrong with you. This article (don't print it up whatever you do, it's a total waste of paper and ink) suggests that if you don't fit that narrow minded perfect model of conforming to the bore you to tears norm, that you have a mental disorder. I don't buy a word of it and neither should any of you.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:17 am

I saw you mention Enron and dollars so going to guess your Canadian? if so do you know Michaels :lol:

Differing from social apathy were the movement is more "meh" towards sex and confusing that with asexuality..

I don't think if you have a mental illness it's "there is something wrong with you" but more you are different and may have some underlying issues

Not so sure about the schizoid personality disorder term as in the old days you may have instead been called a hermit or a loner

When it comes to asexuality most identifying are not..the difficult thing to decide however..is it an asexual with an issue/s or a person with issue/s identifying wrongly as asexual

most of that group will be those on the discovery phase from teen to adult...the same path we have all been through..where your straight one month, gay the next, bi the following etc etc..most of those identifying as asexual will not be say 12 months later

there is also another group and that is mental health... by defintion most (not all) these groups do struggle with human interaction with others in some way ...also since the rise of social media on the internet, youth mental illness has dramatically increased. Now with social anxiety, most will wish to be alone through fear of being hurt either physically, emotionaly or both, this often see's people as having relationship issues and on occasions this is wrongly identified as asexuality. Depression is another way some believe attraction to others can be nullified.

It is difficult often to feel good about others if you feel bad about yourself and it is this level of complexity towards others that often see's people identifying as asexual when it is more likely to be a social interaction anxiety. Often when life is fighting you... the top of your list isn't sexual attraction to others.

So why is it wrong to identify as asexual when your your sexual and your issue is mental health and not an asexual with mental health issues?..primarliy that individuals safety.....often those with the severest of mental health issues do need support and by saying hey you must be asexual rather than, lacking sexual attraction to others doesn't always mean your asexual.. for those in the most need, should be helped by trained mental health care professionals. Often wrongly identifying tricks peoples minds into going down one direction when their mental need may say another route

I do agree the mental health arena is as almost label obsessed as the asexual community..almost

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby FoxMulder » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:25 pm

PiF:
That's a lengthy explanation for something fairly simple. The desire for sex within a population is most likely a bell curve, and those of us who are asexual happen to be at the lower end of the bell curve. I think there's a cultural aspect to it also. From the time we're born we're bombarded with messages from marketers who draw up profiles for people based on age, gender, race, religion, and other qualities and they show how you should act depending on your profile they've created. Most people seem to buy into it, but I was the boy who said the emperor was wearing no clothes and thus didn't buy into it all so easily. For example as a boy and even now as an adult I was and still am "supposed to" be interested in sports. I never was and still am not. Similarly, I have no interest at all in status or conspicuous consumption and DON'T CARE about what kind of car, house, or whatever I'm supposed to have. Similarly I never bought into the idea that I was supposed to have sex on my mind above everything else, bursting at the seam with hormones as a teenager, just because that's what some marketer says I'm supposed to do. I had and still have other things on my mind, and that won't change unless some woman enters my life that I absolutely can't live without. After a good friendship develops, then we'll talk about sex and not before.

ASs for Enron, it was listed on the NYSE and had its headquarters in Houston, TX if my memory serves me right.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:28 am

In a rather politician kind of way you did not answer the Michaels question :lol:

I find those claiming subliminal messaging and the like often tend to have not much grip on reality. As to "desire" for sex, I feel this is not relevant to asexuality.

Desire is a want..asexuals is having no sexual attraction..the two are polar opposites, one is a choice the other is a complete lack of.

Bell curve, spectrum doo dah doo dah day..it's like saying if 1 and 1 is two why are some making out it's 3?..it's not it is one of those simple equasions that is yes or no..any "spectrum" is reflective of whatsexuals experience and to what degree and not...what level of asexuality is applied although I suggest it should be none.

You not wishing to conform to the norm is far more prevalent to sexuals than asexuals and as such explains why so many confuse such things as emotional trauma, relationship apathy, sexual apathy or just simply "meh" about sex..with asexuality...To say mental health issues has no relation to people not being interested in sex is pure idealic nonsense and would be untrue

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby FoxMulder » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:13 pm

PiF:
You’d make a better politician than me, with a long winded explanation of something simple and straightforward rather than getting to the point.

Did it ever occur to you that in order to have desire there needs to be attraction in the first place? It’s called cause and effect, you can’t have one without another so they are linked rather than being opposites. For example many straight people don’t have a desire to take part in homosexual activities because (drum roll here) they don’t have the attraction in the first place.

From what I’m reading here, it looks like you don’t understand bell curves. Many things in the real world have a normal distribution (another name for a bell curve) such as height or weight of a large group of people, intelligence, and many other qualities or quantities, so why should sex desire or attraction be any different?

If not being a conformist is more prevalent among sexual people, it’s probably because there are more of them. It’s just like how you should find fewer non conformists with blood type AB than with other blood types simply because there are so fewer of them.

The idea that all asexual people have mental health issues is still debatable. Over the years I’ve met many people who are asexual (that is, they don’t take part in sex and don’t appear to have a desire as I explained above) and yet they go on about their lives. Outside of being asexual they have jobs like most people, they don’t have a criminal record or any other such troubles in their lives, they have hobbies and interests, friends, they drive vehicles, live in houses or apartments like everyone else does, and live otherwise normal lives. Am I overlooking something here?

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby Ciri » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:48 pm

You're overlooking sex positives.

Causation is one of the most difficult things to prove in research, thus I would argue I cannot be proved in this instance.

By the way, I enjoy sex and would go as far to say I desire it sometimes but that doesn't stop me from being asexual.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:11 am

FoxMulder wrote:PiF:You’d make a better politician than me, with a long winded explanation of something simple and straightforward rather than getting to the point.
and yet you still have avoided the simple yes or no question I asked earlier :lol:

FoxMulder wrote:Did it ever occur to you that in order to have desire there needs to be attraction in the first place? It’s called cause and effect,


Not entirely, it is possible to desire (want) something without attraction, how often have we all seen people who the more they can't have something the more they want (desire) it and that has nothing to do with attraction

FoxMulder wrote: For example many straight people don’t have a desire to take part in homosexual activities because (drum roll here) they don’t have the attraction in the first place.
The attraction is to an individual and not the orientation you seem to have missed out. Otherwise it would be a blanket attarction to all within an orientation

FoxMulder wrote: From what I’m reading here, it looks like you don’t understand bell curves. Many things in the real world have a normal distribution (another name for a bell curve) such as height or weight of a large group of people, intelligence, and many other qualities or quantities, so why should sex desire or attraction be any different?


Absolutely understand bell curve and for a non conformist it would appear you do confirm to set proceedures/standards/methods when it suits you personally despite your earlier protestation

FoxMulder wrote: The idea that all asexual people have mental health issues is still debatable.


Not debatable at all, I never said it..I have said over the years the question is wether an asexual has a mental illness or someone who has a mental illness is wrongly describing themselves as asexual due to the problems in their life that effect such things as interactions with other, social anxiety etc..from the years of being in the asexual online community there are two main groups who wrongly identify as asexuals, those going through the discovery phase of youth and the others where mental health issues would by default effect attraction to others

FoxMulder wrote:Over the years I’ve met many people who are asexual (that is, they don’t take part in sex and don’t appear to have a desire as I explained above) and yet they go on about their lives. Outside of being asexual they have jobs like most people, they don’t have a criminal record or any other such troubles in their lives, they have hobbies and interests, friends, they drive vehicles, live in houses or apartments like everyone else does, and live otherwise normal lives. Am I overlooking something here?


On this last part you agree with me..I've always said..asexuality is a very small but important part of who I am ...but it is only a small part of what and who I am.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:41 am

PiF, I read through all of this and most of it doesn't really bother me, but there is one part where I think you are 100% wrong.

People with mental issues can absolutely be asexual! No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Asexuality is a way of being. Full stop.
The cause and - just for the record - (IMO) the DURATION is irrelevant.

You are very quick to say that people who LEGITIMATELY don't experience any kind of sexual attraction to anybody aren't "real" asexuals because they don't conform to your pre-determined standard of perfection.

I VERY STRONGLY disagree. Asexuality CAN, and sometimes DOES, occur in conjunction with a variety of other mental conditions. (I don't think of them as mental illnesses, since most of them are usually fairly benign.) Cause and effect??? Who knows ...? But the point is that a person can have schizoid personality disorder, or Asperger's, or gender dysphoria, or any number of other so-called mental illnesses and still fulfill all the criteria for being asexual.
They ARE asexual.

The conditions that you are trying to tack on to the definition of asexuality are NOT officially part of it, and I don't believe that they should be. Nowhere does it say that asexuality cannot be associated with any other conditions, or that it has to last an entire lifetime with no wavering or desire to experiment at any point, ever.

I have a very dear gay friend who once, many years ago, had a straight relationship with a woman for quite a length of time. It wasn't coercion of any kind - he was attracted to her because she had a body type that fascinated him and he wanted to be with her. He said that it wasn't terrible, but eventually it just wasn't fulfilling for him.
He's still gay, and he always has been. Its the exceptions that prove the rule.

I think I see what might be the problem. You are looking at sexual orientation as something like race - meaning that you think it's a biological trait hard-wired into a person from conception, and that it can never change.
Science doesn't support this view, and for good reason. Sexual orientation is influenced by a lot of things, both before and after birth. It isn't a conscious decision - which means that it's a SUB conscious one, and the subconscious mind is often influenced by things like childhood experiences, culture, upbringing, etc, not to mention basic personality structures, or "mental conditions" if you will.

Nonetheless, regardless of its cause, the source of a person's sexual orientation remains SUBconscious - meaning that they have no idea what is causing their feelings and they have no way to access the memories that might provide a clue. As far as they're concerned, it's just the way they are - end of story.
I maintain that nobody else has any right to second guess them. Not you, not me, not anybody. And yet that's EXACTLY what you're doing when you say that they aren't "real" asexuals if they are also (fill in: _____ .)
But how the hell are they supposed to know??? They are the only ones who know what they feel, or don't feel, and nobody else can legitimately tell them otherwise.

That's why, from the very beginning, telling anybody else whether or not they are really asexual has been very strongly discouraged.
As it should be.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 am

Nancy I think you skimmed otherwise you would have seen

When it comes to asexuality most identifying are not..the difficult thing to decide however..is it an asexual with an issue/s or a person with issue/s identifying wrongly as asexual

I have said over the years the question is wether an asexual has a mental illness or someone who has a mental illness is wrongly describing themselves as asexual due to the problems in their life that effect such things as interactions with other, social anxiety etc

KAGU143 wrote:You are very quick to say that people who LEGITIMATELY don't experience any kind of sexual attraction to anybody aren't "real" asexuals because they don't conform to your pre-determined standard of perfection.


I think you confused yourself there Nancy ...i didn't say if you do not experience any kind of sexual attraction you are not real asexuals...I have however when asked by an individual ..am I asexual? I have re-iterated the definition and said to those..do you fit that definition?..in general after that most have gone away and thought a bit more rather than dive into the deep end of the latest trend.

As to your pre-determined standard of perfection..I will and continue to use the thing that defines the difference between an asexual and a sexual...the definition of what an asexual is..that is not my pre determined standard of perfection but again..our own definition and until that changes it is the one that is widely agreed aupon and the one we use ourselves. So no not mine..but ours.

Which ties in with your question how are people supposed to know...it's incredible easy..do you feel sexual attraction.. if you do then no your not

as to the orientation is a race comment..I do not see asexuality as an orientation..an orientation is who you orientate towards straight to straight, gay to gay, bi to bi etc that part has nothing to do with asexuality...by your suggestion as a straight asexual I would have a double orientation :lol: which is plain silly

The fault has been the lack of courage to answer a simple yes or no question leaving many people looking for answers where no one wants to provide one

The definition is very truthfull and it is a yes or no answer..our job so to speak, is to promote as far possible an accurate description of asexuality...what people do with it themselves is upto them

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:09 pm

PiF wrote:Nancy I think you skimmed otherwise you would have seen

When it comes to asexuality most identifying are not..the difficult thing to decide however..is it an asexual with an issue/s or a person with issue/s identifying wrongly as asexual

I have said over the years the question is wether an asexual has a mental illness or someone who has a mental illness is wrongly describing themselves as asexual due to the problems in their life that effect such things as interactions with other, social anxiety etc

KAGU143 wrote:You are very quick to say that people who LEGITIMATELY don't experience any kind of sexual attraction to anybody aren't "real" asexuals because they don't conform to your pre-determined standard of perfection.


What did I miss??
You are saying that someone "with issues" is wrongly identifying as asexual.
I am saying that YOU don't have the right to say that anybody who identifies as asexual is wrong, whether they have issues or not. You can't get inside their head and know what they experience. Only they can decide.

As for having a double sexual orientation?
Nope.
But romantic or emotional orientation (call it what you will) is not even remotely the same thing as a sexual orientation. The two do not have to go together at all. Most of the time they do, but not always.
You can have a sexual orientation that attracts you to absolutely nobody and nothing, but a romantic orientation/attraction that is very specific toward a specific sex or gender or body type or ... whatever.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:17 pm

Are you saying there are no individuals wrongly identifying as asexual and then promoting that incorrect identity as correct?

I am saying we have a moral obligation if promoting asexuality accurately is to be accurate... then if someone comes looking they have some clear points of reference and they know where they stand and what they as individuals want to do next...and I am after all..only using the acknowledged definition.

The definition is just one point that seperates us from sexuals...only one single difference..and if we can't be bothered to challenge when that difference is being portrayed incorrectly then why should we expect others to believe us

The simple truth is Nancy..the internet age has reduced the amount of face to face experiences, has seen quite a rise in teen mental health issues and with the stress in modern life sexual actions between long term partners has gone down...none of these are definitions of asexuality..none ,but more and more are mistaking those events as asexuality..this isn't negating any person but more being honest and accurate with an answer when they come looking.

There is a difference to saying, not that is not what asexuality is...and no you are not asexual

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:13 pm

PiF wrote:Are you saying there are no individuals wrongly identifying as asexual and then promoting that incorrect identity as correct?



No. Of course not.
But remember: the subject of this particular thread is schizoid personality disorder, not people who are being temporarily celibate because they're between relationships. In a case like the latter I would agree with you.

There are some fairly simple questions which are effective at helping people to gauge whether they have a good chance of being asexual, and it goes something like this:

Would you be happiest in a relationship where you knew that sex would never, ever, under any circumstance, be an expected part of it?
Would you be willing to never have sex with another person for as long as you live? Would you see that situation as a positive or a negative?
Would it be liberating or restricting for you?

If you answer "yes, positive, and liberating" then you are probably asexual.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:16 pm

Don't ask a nun or monk those questions, she might claim she's asexual too

this is the bit I struggle with I will be honest

the above questions relate not having sex ...asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction to others... the two are two completely different things

but far too often asexuality is being pushed as "not wanting sex" and so leads to more confusion and I'm a bit suprised that even some long term asexuals are unable to see this and actually promote it?

not wanting sex is not asexuality

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:13 pm

Oh yes it is!!

Actually, a nun or a monk might very well be asexual. They might also be sexual. If they are sexual as well as truthful then they would see never having sex as a loss, but (hopefully) one that was outweighed by their spiritual gain. I know of at least one case where a Catholic clergy member argued, among other things, that an asexual could never be a valid member of the clergy since they couldn't learn to overcome a temptation they had never experienced.

However, I wasn't talking about HAVING sex, I was talking about WANTING to have sex. The difference is extremely important.

Not being sexually attracted to (___) = not wanting to have sex with (___).
Not wanting to have sex with (___) = not being sexually attracted to (___).

Nobody can even agree on how to define sexual attraction. Seriously. Nobody. Not the public, not the medical profession, not the headshrinkers, not anybody. Not even that new source of all wisdom: social media.

We went around and around on this topic at AVEN, and I can't begin to tell you how many hours I spent in trying to find some sort of logical explanation or definition that would make sense to everybody. I finally gave up. It is such a subjective experience that it just doesn't translate into any sort of universally comprehensible description. One person's perfect description would make no sense at all to the next person ... it was mind-boggling.

However, most people can tell whether they want something or not, so I chose those words for a reason.
Somebody who WANTS to have sex with another person is not asexual because the idea of having sex with that person is attractive to them - thus they want it.

Somebody who wants to keep a strong relationship with another person and who doesn't object to having sex for that purpose could be asexual. It might seem like hair-splitting, but it isn't.

It's not what you do - it's what you WANT to do. It's what makes you the happiest.

Now, someone who thinks that having sex for the sake of a relationship is what makes them happiest might find this confusing, but it might just be because they lack introspection. What is it that they REALLY want the most? The relationship or the sex? If they can't decide between the two then they're probably not asexual.

That's why I phrased my questions the way that I did.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:35 pm

Not wanting sex is not asexuality....oh yes it is..nope I disagree..if it was not wanting sex then how do you explain asexuals who do want sex in oreder to please a partner?...desire/want is not what asexuality is at all

Somebody who WANTS to have sex with another person is not asexual because the idea of having sex with that person is attractive to them - thus they want it. ..This is simply wrong Nancy..what that statement has done is call all asexuals in a relationship where they have wanted to have sex for the sole purpose of pleasing a partner..that they cannot be asexual...asexuality is not the want or lack of want for sex but the simply the absence of sexual attraction within that individual..and yes, you as an asexual can be attracted to a partner but not sexually as sexuals tend to be.

let me give you an example that will also lead onto why some find it difficult also will link into what sexual attraction is

A straight man, a lesbian woman and an asexual go on a tour of a local country house, as they walk through the house they are led to the gardens where there is a swimming pool surrounded by very attractive nubile young women, on seeing this it gains these reactions

Straight man....MmmmmMmmmm look at them honeys, I wonder if I can get me some of them
Lesbian woman...O my, a honey pot of goodness, I could be here all day long
Asexual...I wonder what temperature the water is?

sexual attraction is incredibly easy to identify... they are people who feel sexually attracted to others...asexuals are not sexually attracted to others...not being sexually attracted to others has nothing to do with the ability/want to have sex with another

That's it, couldn't be easier and asexuals do not lack sexual attraction through choice because it is almost like a rabbit in the headlights reaction..a more of a "say what"?..it is something we are simply without..a non registering area of thought..the box is empty...it's a dead parrot

wether or not you want sex is a choice...being sexually repulsed/anti sexual/celibate or sex positive etc is the same wether you are asexual or sexual...the only difference between us and sexuals is one has no sexual attraction to others and the other group does.

I think desperation has seen confusion..some want to sell out the simple one difference between us and sexuals..just one.... so have tried to muddy the waters to allow asexuality to be more inclusive than accurate

just what is asexuality..just what is sexual attraction...if an individual can't tell the difference, then I humbly suggest that individual shouldn't be identifying as asexual till they do know

asexuality= the simple lack of sexual attraction to others...not to be confused with wether a person wants sex or not

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:58 am

PiF, you aren't understanding what I wrote, and it's frustrating because I tried to be as clear as possible.
The only people who can't understand what I'm saying would be those who - quite literally - don't know what they really want.

In your first example
how do you explain asexuals who do want sex in order to please a partner?..

IF they are asexual then THEY DON'T WANT THE SEX!!!! THEY WANT TO PLEASE THEIR PARTNER. That difference is HUGE.
It is equally huge even if they are one of those clueless people who don't have the foggiest idea about why they do things. People like that wouldn't know what sexual attraction was if it walked up, introduced itself, and then bit them on the ass. Or the crotch!

Here's the REAL question: Would this hypothetical person STILL want to have sex if they knew for sure that their partner would always and forever be equally happy without it?

If the answer to that question is yes, then they are sexual.
If the answer to that question is no then they are asexual.

What do they REALLY want? The sex or the relationship?

And, once again .... if they are unable to answer that question then they are probably Sexual, (or grey-sexual) because
1) They can't imagine having a good relationship without sex at least once in a while, and/or
2) They very rarely, if ever, felt obligated to perform sex when they would have preferred doing almost anything else.
3) Sex with their partner is enjoyable enough that they genuinely look forward to it, and they would eventually miss it if it never happened.

Your oversimplified concept of what sexual attraction is, or what you think it should be, is a big part of the problem, and unfortunately it's one that is shared by a lot of people. Maybe it works that way sometimes, with teen-aged boys being the classic stereotype of this, but MUCH of the time it's a lot more subtle.
Even with sexual people, there is often no immediate attraction, or even interest. In many cases, perhaps even MOST cases, Sexuals do NOT automatically want to jump in bed with every attractive person they see! They don't even think about it. A new acquaintance might be about as sexually attractive as used cat litter until much later, when something suddenly clicks and the idea of having sex with that person makes it seem like it might be worth doing at some point.
For some sexuals it doesn't happen until well after a very strong friendship has already developed, and, thanks in part to the entertainment industry's misinformation about the nature of love, those poor sexuals may end up thinking that they are abnormal, or even asexual.
This is why we have the various Grey sexuals who are wanting to be accepted as Hemi, Demi, ... whatever a/sexuals.

Is what I'm saying clear yet?
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:27 am

Yes I do understand I just simply do not agree..I have never been accused of being stupid before :D okay maybe once or twice

iF they are asexual then THEY DON'T WANT THE SEX!!!! THEY WANT TO PLEASE THEIR PARTNER. That difference is HUGE. ....if you consider it a difference is where the problem may lie..asexuality has never been the not wanting of sex..that is celibacy

If you are a sex positive asexual you don't care if you have sex as an asexual ..you'd still rather have a cup of tea but that is because you can take it or leave it. Occasionally compromise can be met but yes you can want sex ...in the same way some asexuals masturbate...it can be considered an itch that needs to be scratched..and neither of these requires sexual attraction

Here's the REAL question: Would this hypothetical person STILL want to have sex if they knew for sure that their partner would always and forever be equally happy without it?

If the answer to that question is yes, then they are sexual.
If the answer to that question is no then they are asexual.


wanting sex and not feeling sexual attraction to others are two completely different things but you seem to suggest they are the same, i disagree..asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction and nothing more..perhaps you seeing it as something it is not is what is causing your frustration?

You say oversimplified concept of what sexual attraction is, is part of the problem...i would disagree..I would see the problem is that lacking sexual attraction to others is as simple as it can be..but others want to complicate that so try and make it something it is not..and there is where the real problem lies.

For some sexuals it doesn't happen until well after a very strong friendship has already developed, and, thanks in part to the entertainment industry's misinformation about the nature of love, those poor sexuals may end up thinking that they are abnormal, or even asexual.
This is why we have the various Grey sexuals who are wanting to be accepted as Hemi, Demi, ... whatever a/sexuals.


I think recently you mentioned my view on this is correct and is something Kæth has been saying for ages also..so yes agree on the incorrect and rude assumption sexuals walk around hard or dripping all the time

You know my views on low fat asexuals..they are sexual

is what I'm saying clear yet?...absolutely, I just think your wrong...asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction to others...and nothing more

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:16 am

The real problem here is that we are unable to agree on the definition of sexual attraction, and the ramifications of being sexually attracted, so we are in the same exact position that we (asexuals) have always been in.

FACT: Nobody ever does anything that they don't want to do unless there are reasons FOR doing it that overrule their desire NOT to do it.
I don't care whether it's eating broccoli or getting up before dawn or going to the dentist or paying taxes or whatever. There are no exceptions.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

A sex-positive asexual is perfectly willing to have sex under extenuating circumstances, such as keeping a relationship. They aren't going to complain or guilt-trip the other partner - they're okay with it, and they can even enjoy it in the sense that it makes their partner happy, and the physical aspects of it are (should be) enjoyable, but this is NOT the same thing as wanting sex with that partner for its own sake.

Somebody who WANTS to have sex with another person when it isn't necessary to do so is Not Asexual.

Sorry. Having sex with another person isn't even remotely the same thing as masturbation. If someone is so callous about another person's feelings that they think that having sex with them is no different than masturbation .... That's called USING them for one's own sexual gratification, and I feel sorry for everybody involved.
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:44 pm

There is a difference between unable to agree with the definition of sexual attraction and not being happy with it, I suggest those who struggle with the correct definition fall into the second group. sexual attraction= attracted sexually...would you agree that is the only difference between us and sexuals?

Having sex with another person isn't even remotely the same thing as masturbation. .....it can be as both see an urge to remove the need....let me explain further

An asexual wanting sex can do so without sexual attraction as they do not experience sexual attraction...it's when an urge, an itch, a grrrrrrr lets sort this out ..the ability to carry out a sexual act without sexual attraction..asexuals in relationships with sexuals have been doing this for decades.

Sexuals often get sexually frustrated and may feel a right seeing too as a way to release this..there is no sexual attraction to the partner on this instance but it is an itch they want scratched..and with in a loving relationship both sides may have these urges and also a wish to work with each other...this isn't new as it's what asexual/sexual relationships can do ...often it's compromise..the sexual partner understands you lack sexual attraction but may understand their physical needs as they will understand you also may have a physical need that is not related to sexual attraction but does require a sexual act.

Example..a sexual partner says to me..this is gonna sound weird but I am so wound up right now and I need to explode...let's have sex right here right now......I'm sex positive so I have no issues with this so am happy to oblige..it may be short and fierce sex but afterwards she is in a calmer place having released that level of pent up emotion...now....asexuals also have pent up emotion, regulary... for some and often there is a need to release..some do this with violence,some do this with exercise, some do this with alcohol and some do this with sex..a brief burst of something that releases that pent up emotion...it doesn't mean they are sexually attracted to drugs, booze or the oposite sex/same sex...so yes it is possible for an asexual to want sex either for a partner or for themselves as wanting sex is not the same as lacking sexual attraction

and it all comes back to..asexuality..the lack of sexual attraction..nothing more and nothing less.

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby KAGU143 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:10 pm

I understand what you are saying, and I flatly disagree.
You are describing a relationship between (probably) a grey-sexual and a sexual.

Want and attraction simply cannot be completely separated in the way that you are describing. They are too tightly intertwined in the human psyche.
It's certainly possible to DENY that they're connected. Heaven knows - humans excel at denying, especially if it's something that makes them uncomfortable, but that really doesn't change anything.

To want something is to desire it or, in other words, to be attracted to the idea of having it.
You want a Caesar salad? That means that you are attracted to the idea of having it. You could call the desire to eat a certain thing culinary attraction.
You want a bigger house? That means that you are attracted to the idea of having a bigger house. You could call it spatial attraction, luxury attraction ... real estate attraction? (I dunno if there is a specific word.)

You want to have sex with someone? That means that you are attracted to the idea of having sex with them, ie: you WANT it, and THAT, my friend, is sexual attraction.

If you have absolutely no attraction to something then you don't want it.
'Not saying that you won't accept it, and perhaps even decide that you like some aspects of it, but it would never be your first choice if all else was equal.

You can't have it both ways. You are either attracted or you are not. You either want something or you don't.

An asexual who isn't currently in a relationship and who is searching for one will prefer (ideally) to find one where sex is never going to be expected. That's because they won't ever be sexually attracted to their partner.

Maybe you shouldn't be so judgmental of the ones who call themselves Grey-A?
There's no shame in being grey - heck, it's part of my most common username. Different reason, different flavor of grey, but still ...
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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:18 pm

There is no having it both ways ..asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction and absolutely nothing else

You want to have sex with someone? That means that you are attracted to the idea of having sex with them, ie: you WANT it, and THAT, my friend, is sexual attraction.

ahhaa..our definition is NOT lacking in the idea of having sex with someone...it is and remains simple to understand...it is An asexual person is a person who does not experience sexual attraction...what happens with sex wether yes you do or no you do not IS a seperate circumstance from that lack of sexual attraction..the two are very separate meanings

To want something is to desire it or, in other words, to be attracted to the idea of having it. which is nonsense..example..I WANT to get all get all that horse shit out of the stables....that doesn't mean suddenly I am ATTRACTED to horse shit..that would be silly.....I WANT to put gas in my car does not mean I am suddenly attracted to my car or gas,,want and attraction ARE to separate things

and to use your own words in why you find it difficult to accept that....Heaven knows - humans excel at denying, especially if it's something that makes them uncomfortable, but that really doesn't change anything.

and I didn't need to put that in small print either :P :lol:

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Re: Your not Asexual but you have Schizoid Personality Disorder

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:39 pm

I think Nancy I agree with you that we seem to reflect the two camps

The line many follow explains asexuality through the singulary recognised definition that shows we are all sexuals except in one small but very important part ...that we as asexuals, lack sexual attraction and sexual attraction is incredibly easy to explain as it is simply being attracted sexually to anothers.

The other side of the coin if you will, the side you appear to be on... feels that asexuals do not only lack sexual attraction but also do not have a desire or want for sex..i would humbly suggest these are more likely to be celibate asexuals

There is a case for both opinions to exist but it would seem for some that the line you feel is correct... is not.

Not all sex or sexual acts take place based on sexual attraction ..a good example is the bdsm and kink areas of asexuality...and because of that, the desire/want part becomes non applicable and as I've mentioned want does not automatically mean attraction...I want an ice cream this morning as the sun is out..doesn't mean i must be sexually attracted to it and will place it on my wizz wang :lol:

It's the latter view..the desirists if you will ...that add the confusion that surrounds asexuality where as the former is clear, precise and lets be honest explains the only difference between us and sexuals..and there is only one..not several

Perhaps the definition needs to change? I personally do not feel it does but that is not to say it will not be debated until our dying days :lol: