Non-binary traits that are not trans?

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CatBunny
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Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby CatBunny » 28 Jul 2015, 15:42

So this question I put up to a lot of people and really received little to no real input. I asked the first time if it's possible that people can neither feminine or masculine traits without being trans? I got no real good responses besides "oh you can only be trans to have that" or "there are only a few labels such as 'soft butch' or 'hard femme' for those who aren't purely masculine or feminine". I gave up with that.
Next time I asked it again was an asexual meetup, it was even worse. I told them I always had this feeling where I felt very uncomfortable in gendered clothing, wearing any would make me feel not like myself and I've had it all my life, but I feel my gender problems weren't severe enough to make me agender. I really wanted to know if there were actually more labels beyond "butch" and "femme". They responded saying i'm trans, I'm agender and should be referred to with feminine pronouns. Or I should look for a ton of other trans labels. I finally gave up. Any sort of input about this? I always found this kinda a hard topic to get response from. (also got a terrible response once from someone saying "how dare you assume gender has anything to do with clothing!")
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flergalwit
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby flergalwit » 28 Jul 2015, 19:31

Yes it's possible to have traits that are not typically associated with femininity or masculinity without being trans*. I don't know about labels though (but I'm sure there are some...)

PiF
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby PiF » 28 Jul 2015, 21:03

Nooooo more labels noooooooooooooo :lol:

I surprisingly do get accused of being gay on occasion not because of my asexuality or because I am ( I'm not, I'm straighter than a straight thing) but I do like interior design, often go with my friends who are girls to give them a chaps opinion when they buy clothes (they say they want a males point of view but i tell them i only offer a friends point of view) and enjoy many things tradittionally seen as female traits. Not sure if associated female traits are an automatic trans related situation though ?

You mention low reply rate....I must admit in replying, i normally switch off and go to sleep when I see ciss this, binary that, agender etc

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CatBunny
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby CatBunny » 29 Jul 2015, 05:00

I guess there is the label androgynous, although it means both male and female, but I guess can apply to neither. I know creating a ton of new labels is annoying, but what I do find annoying is this new prevailing idea that the slightest thing will make you transgender without you actually having actual gender issues. Like some people now consider cross dressers transgender...
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PiF
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby PiF » 29 Jul 2015, 06:10

I get your drift on that. I dated a girl once who wanted me to be her paid sex slave...don't ask :ohnoes: I caught up with her later with a chap I knew on the same forum I had met her on. I knew before she did he was a crosser dresser, straight and an absolutely wonderful person. When we all chatted over a beer he went to the loo. She asked, did you know? Of course says I but to me he is him and I never gave a thought to it. A few years later I caught up with her and sadly they had split. It turns out later in the relationship he had wanted to mtf but felt it was not something she could cope with so they parted.

I never did see him again and lost touch, I mention this because when I first knew him and later when we chatted...he seemed perfectly happy to remain as a cross dresser and never seemed to entertain mtf...but yes I get your point...one is not always the other.

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CatBunny
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby CatBunny » 29 Jul 2015, 09:49

PiF wrote:I get your drift on that. I dated a girl once who wanted me to be her paid sex slave...don't ask :ohnoes: I caught up with her later with a chap I knew on the same forum I had met her on. I knew before she did he was a crosser dresser, straight and an absolutely wonderful person. When we all chatted over a beer he went to the loo. She asked, did you know? Of course says I but to me he is him and I never gave a thought to it. A few years later I caught up with her and sadly they had split. It turns out later in the relationship he had wanted to mtf but felt it was not something she could cope with so they parted.

I never did see him again and lost touch, I mention this because when I first knew him and later when we chatted...he seemed perfectly happy to remain as a cross dresser and never seemed to entertain mtf...but yes I get your point...one is not always the other.


Yeah, I really can understand. I noticed now with more interest in gender issues, people are more open to admitting things about gender although people also seem to not understand it. I quit an asexual meetup group because that was just one thing I could not stand, people cutesfying trans issues. Telling me that trans pronouns anyone can adopt if they choose to or not, they don't even have to be trans. Meanwhile some people in the group don't even know if being agender is even being transgender, half of them didn't even know what exactly agender is despite asking people to adopt it. Even when I explained to them it's under the trans umbrella they were like "I dunno, not sure". The icing on the cake was them telling me to call myself a genderless cis person. I don't know how you can be genderless and cis at the same time, unless you were literally born without a gender? I don't recall my body built like a barbie doll.
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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby PiF » 29 Jul 2015, 10:05

Trans....as bullsy as some accuse me of being, I do not feel I would be courageous enough to mtf if that was my situation. In many ways trans seems to be the last taboo.

I hope i will explain this correctly and it's not meant to offend..in many ways if you say peadophile then people seem to think they know what one is and are comfortable offering an opinion on this. If you say trans..people seem either to go into a spasm, ummm and err a lot then either move on or give an full explanation copy and pasted from wikipedia and then look stunned when you say ermmmm nope. they are the type of people who swallowed the sexual orientation bible.

I've worked with some like this in that they can read, quote and remember the study they have done...ask them, have you ever met a mtf or ftm and listened to what they have said and they look at you as though you have just asked them to cut their left hand off.

I rarely see things other than in black and white but trans..does interest me enough to learn more

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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby KAGU143 » 29 Jul 2015, 10:57

In response to the opening post: yes!
I am referring to myself as an example, since I've always had a LOT of masculine traits, but I've never wanted to be a male. Well ... as far as that goes, I've never been too crazy about being a female either, BUT that has always been the default since I'm female-bodied, so I compromise by being what used to be called a Tomboy. I don't know what today's "enlightened" terminology is, and I don't care.

(After doing all of the various gender and orientation tests I have come to the conclusion that I'm supposed to be a gay male trapped in a female body.
BTW, my response to that was: first, "What the F*CK??" and then "Oh HELL no!!")

There used to be a really neat little website called Androgyne Online. It might still be around, but I think it's been inactive for a long time. I found it to be very informative back when I was first learning about asexuality and non-typical gender identities, and I could relate to a lot of the things that they said.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

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Re: Non-binary traits that are not trans?

Postby PiF » 30 Jul 2015, 03:56

I must admit I've never been sure if trans as trans fits into the asexual definition unless they are of course an asexual who happens to be trans and so I wonder if that has anything to do with the lack of trans awareness/discussion as such in the asexual arena.

I remember dating a girl...in relation to your experiences Nancy...a girl who was one step up from a tomboy, what we call in the u.k. a geezer bird. She could out drink most men, out curse most men and absolutely loved being one of the boys but...absolutely loved to be shagged as in that act...although dominering and took charge...she always loved having the best of both worlds..remaining feminim but also able to stand her ground as one of the boys.

This one Nancy??? http://androgyne.0catch.com/

I often wonder if the obsessive need for labels raises barriers rather than remove them?


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