Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

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PiF
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Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 10 Jun 2016, 07:50

It was claimed to be a series of lectures in regards to equality

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/white ... -2pxg8wsgv

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/06/08/un ... white-men/

and it appears racism, sexism, elitism is well set in here

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266 ... internship

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 14 Jun 2016, 04:26

The thing here is...how on earth does "we are super special entitled people" justify banning people based on their sexuality, colour, religion or even able bodied ?

You can't claim it's bad when it is done to you...but then say it's okay when you do it to others...you really can't. That isn't equality, never has been.

This is simply move to the back of the bus just with the people having swapped roles. how on earth can you have a discussion about equality if you ban people based on their colour, sex, sexuality etc etc ?

Equality is what it says on the tin..equality..all people equal, to start banning and shutting others down because you believe you are more equal than others is not and has never been, equality

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 14 Jun 2016, 04:49

Equality means equal respect and equal acceptance.

So, do you give equal respect and acceptance to young people who have questions about their gender identities and think they might be asexual, or do you start tossing around belittling words like "snowflakes"?
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 14 Jun 2016, 05:41

Fair question

You may have noticed that when some one comes in and actually asks am I asexual...rather than stating the obvious no...I often offer them other areas to look into whilst looking into asexuality, such as sexual repulsion, anti sexual, sexual apathy aromantic etc

Snowflakery is a behaviour but even then I have never denied them the ability to do it or say they are not entitled to do it...the links I provided highlighted a group that should know better...sought to take away those rights from others

Snowflakery is not about identification of their gender ...you say belittling, Some would say an accurate description of what a snowflake behaviour is

The difference Nancy is...a snowflake will try and shut you down if you disagree with them...I on the other hand am more than happy to debate the issue at hand and accept some may have a different view to me...not something snowflakes are known for.

I can guarranty you this...when I have a debate..it's open to EVERYBODY..and that is far from belittling :D

So on that basis Nancy, whilst I may have strong views, my openess to others differeing views even where I may disagree...probably makes me one of the most open, consistent and tolerant Asexuals you know :P :D

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 14 Jun 2016, 10:23

I will have to disagree with you on that.
I don't necessarily think that you do it on purpose, in fact I think you're a decent fellow overall, but you are consistently and publically very dismissive of those who don't measure up to your own personal definition of asexuality. (Like most of AVEN's members.) You don't seem to do it when it's a one-on-one interaction, but when you are talking in general terms you are very condescending toward younger asexuals as well as trans-gendered asexuals, the various kinds of grey-As ,and any others who fall outside of the part of the asexual spectrum that you approve.

Are you aware that you do this?
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 14 Jun 2016, 10:50

I'm aware when I speak to an individual I am approaching that individual..but when I am talking as a collective to a collective and part of a collective then generalisations are inevitable

I'm aware our own census, like the 2015 one that is being hidden from us, says that most who claim asexuality online tend to white, on "the spectrum" females with a pink twist, are in uni/college and mostly between 16-26 and after the age of around 26, fall off a cliff and disappear..not my condescension but avens own members replies to the census

but you are consistently and publically very dismissive of those who don't measure up to your own personal definition of asexuality.

You mean the one at the top of avens page and the one that even after 2 years of discussion ,,the majority and by some large margin, agree with it is the correct one ?? http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1047 ... on/page-62 so it's not just me as you seem to imply but the largest part of the community and the same definition we are known by since 2001

I am aware that the swamping of the main asexual forum, aven, by those who see it as a sexual identity and gender network site has changed it from a place for asexuals almost into a very unease place to be if you are an asexual...I seem to recall you yourself in the past have made comment on how much aven has changed away from it's asexual origins and not always in a positive way

Happy for you to show me an example of the trans asexual comment you made...I have said that the trans community face very difficult challenges that I doubt I could face, I also remember launching a thread about could you date a trans and I said I could, but again happy for you to show what you mean?

The grey a is nothing new and there are plenty who share the same view that the grey arena/spectrum is a sexual spectrum and not an asexual one

but you are consistently and publically very dismissive of those who don't measure up to your own personal definition of asexuality.

not dismissive of those but trying to be as accurate as possible to explain it in a way that makes sense outside of the lgbt bubble...again...I'm not alone in this

You could say that you believing in the spectrum is actually real, is dismissing my opinion that it is not...I on the other hand would and have said people have different views :D

I have my opinion, it's as valid as anyone else's...but I also accept others have an opinion that might be different, something I regularly say

There is an irony however..where some see my opinion differently and try and shut it down because I do not sing from a lgbt script...I welcome other opinions..even when they are wrong

Are you aware that you do this? ... I am aware that some who claim to be open minded, are the most closed minded of all and thankfully that doesn't apply to me.

When your trying to help people understand what vegetarianism is, it doesn't help when the pescetarians confuse the message

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 15 Jun 2016, 03:27

I'd like too offer two threads if I may the first is along the lines I would use although I wouldn't use "egalitarianism" as I would have to use google to see what it meant..and copy it's spelling :D

I do agree and have said many times...if you want know what an asexual is..look at avens banner then for goods sake do not go in....it is full of sexuals pretending every slice of salami means asexuality.... any..I offer it to show I'm not the only one who has issues with this but also how the 6 month pretend asexuals seem to be deciding the future of asexuality for those who are full time asexuals whilst they flounce off never facing the chaos of what they have left behind ...You say i am intolerant, but look at some of those replies..there seems very little tolerance of others views when they are not on script http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1408 ... s-changed/

the second thread...this shows why so many of our young are confusing asexuality with sexual apathy and an inability to real life compromise...this is doing more damage to our image than anything else and is why they are hiding the 2015 census...by our own census's asexuality is what happens when your a teen early adult http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1408 ... wadays-hm/

I will respect your comment on special snowflake and will attempt to reduce its use to only when they do special snowflake things :lol:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 15 Jun 2016, 03:47

(AVEN)
PiF wrote: ....it is full of sexuals pretending every slice of salami means asexuality....


And your psychic abilities allow you to see inside their minds, your open-mindedness allows you to completely disregard the factors that have led them to question themselves, and your talent for judging others allows you to decide that you can know a stranger's sexuality better than they do?


PiF wrote:any..I offer it to show I'm not the only one who has issues with this but also how the 6 month pretend asexuals seem to be deciding the future of asexuality for those who are full time asexuals whilst they flounce off never facing the chaos of what they have left behind ...You say i am intolerant, but look at some of those replies..there seems very little tolerance of others views when they are not on script http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1408 ... s-changed/

the second thread...this shows why so many of our young are confusing asexuality with sexual apathy and an inability to real life compromise...this is doing more damage to our image than anything else and is why they are hiding the 2015 census...by our own census's asexuality is what happens when your a teen early adult http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1408 ... wadays-hm/

I will respect your comment on special snowflake an will attempt to reduce to only when they do special snowflake things :lol:


I didn't click the links because I really don't care what they say on AVEN. This isn't AVEN and I don't base my decisions on what they do.
As you know, all active parts of Apositive are visible to the public. There are no walls hiding anything here, other than some unused maintenance forums.
I'm having a hard time figuring out how your approach is helpful to those who are sincerely questioning their own sexual identity. It seems to me like it would be a lot more likely to make them turn and run in the other direction, looking for someplace else where they feel safe to ask questions without being belittled.

(Is this what you mean by Gibbs slap?)
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 15 Jun 2016, 04:04

Nancy, if they were asexuals..they wouldn't need a spectrum or stupid amounts of dubious association labels to join the club, you are or you are not and if you are not..your sexual

Okay i'll explain your second part..when they come looking for what and who they are should we lie or be honest? They are after all looking for relevent information

My approach listens to how they describe themselves. ask a few prodding questions then after their replies, you can normally give then a direction for them to look into if they want to take it...this is more helpful than saying anyone is asexual under any label

"what wait, anyone can be asexual at any time??? how does that help?"

You say belittled..I say if they are looking for answers but only want the answers they already have..there would be little reason for them to ask in the first place.....if you did click on the links it would explain and give perfectly good examples of my direction

The gibbs slap works on a promise I will try and stop calling special snowflakes...special snowflakes..we wouldn't want accuracy would we...now where is that bag of cotton wool ? :lol:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 15 Jun 2016, 04:35

PiF is to the REALITY of the asexual spectrum as TeaParty Republicans are to the REALITY of climate change.

No matter how much evidence refutes their beliefs, they will ignore it or dismiss it in order to cling to the faith.

*sigh*

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 15 Jun 2016, 05:52

Why is it called the tea party? all you yanks drink coffee? :D

Now now Nancy, you know I'm not the only one who doesn't believe in the asexual spectrum...a sexual spectrum yes...but an asexual one? no

I don't believe in global warming, that's dogshit hoo har for companies, scientists and ex politicians to make money out of scaring people, Al Gore anyone?

I do believe in climate change as that is the natural evolution of the planet, we might be speeding it up a bit but little we do will stop it.... Just like an annoying sno....dammit, you get my drift :lol:

Honestly , the spectrum only exists not for accuracy but more without it, asexual forums would be empty because full time asexuals are an incredibly rare thing :halo:

Ouch :wah:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 16 Jun 2016, 05:22

:patpat:
Sometimes a minor facial adjustment is needed. No hard feelings.

I think what you are saying, IN EFFECT, is that a person who has always been attracted to their own sex, and still is ( . . . well, except for that one person several years ago, because they didn't seem to be so opposite at all) is actually straight and not homosexual. No half measures - you either are, or you are not.
I flatly disagree. A person who is almost always attracted to their own sex is perfectly within their rights to identify as homosexual, even if some homosexual "purists" might deny them that right and insist that, at best, they are bisexual. The truth is that those "purists" are just as bisexual as the ones they condemn.

You are trying to put the human experience into an artificial, sharply defined box and it simply doesn't work that way. In sane human beings there is no such thing as black and white. The grey is what allows us to feel compassion and empathy for others. It goes far beyond sexuality, but it does NOT EXCLUDE sexuality. People who see things as strictly black and white are psychopaths. They completely lack empathy and yet they see that lack as a sign of superiority. It is NOT a sign of superiority - it's a sign of ignorance.

Here's the real deal, as it is currently understood in 2016:
Image
At the very bottom of the triangle, thanks to the nature of geometry, there is only room for one person, and since a community cannot consist of only one person, and because some people genuinely do fall between the cracks, I changed DJ's original triangle to the shaded version quite a few years ago. He approved, AVEN approved, and it has remained a shaded triangle ever since. Until or unless SCIENCE can find a better answer, this is the best we have.

Get with the times, PiF.
A parade of one person isn't a parade. It's just one person making a lot of noise.

________________________

In regards to the Tea Party: It's the radical right-wing group that has tried to take over the Republican party, and sadly, has had quite a bit of success at doing so. They first chose to identify themselves with the Boston Tea Party as a way to attempt to present themselves as ordinary citizens rebelling against an unjust government. They failed to do their history homework, but that is no surprise. They are uneducated, paranoid, greedy, bigoted, and yet self-righteous to a nauseating degree.

(By the way, a surprising number of Americans actually do drink tea, although we probably don't do it properly.)

Global warming is real, but only if it is calculated by averaging temperatures taken from all over the globe.
In local areas it is simply climate change, because the hotter averages lead to much more unstable weather and that can cause local weather patterns to oscillate wildly, from hot to cold, dry to wet and back and forth. I'm glad I'm not a meteorologist who has to predict this shit for a living!
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 16 Jun 2016, 07:14

KAGU143 wrote: :patpat:
Sometimes a minor facial adjustment is needed. No hard feelings.


I rarely have those. Even after the years of abuse from some in avens backroom and the stitch up that saw me removed, I could still work with them to stop themselves from f*cking up so regularly :lol:

The problem is you have applied the sliding scale of orientation and sexuality to something that is not an orientation and not a sexuality...I can see why you are on the wrong path...let me help :lol:

KAGU143 wrote:I think what you are saying, IN EFFECT, is that a person who has always been attracted to their own sex, and still is ( . . . well, except for that one person several years ago, because they didn't seem to be so opposite at all) is actually straight and not homosexual. No half measures - you either are, or you are not.


Nope..Firstly, it is not universally agreed asexuality is an orientation at all..secondly again your confusing orientation with asexuality.

Who I am is Asexual, my orientation however is straight

KAGU143 wrote:I flatly disagree. A person who is almost always attracted to their own sex is perfectly within their rights to identify as homosexual, even if some homosexual "purists" might deny them that right and insist that, at best, they are bisexual. The truth is that those "purists" are just as bisexual as the ones they condemn.

People who see things as strictly black and white are psychopaths. They completely lack empathy and yet they see that lack as a sign of superiority. It is NOT a sign of superiority - it's a sign of ignorance.


Next time I ask my bank clerk for £100 and they give me £100,I will refer them to Erik Erikson ...you say yes and no's are ignorance but isn't your refusal to accept they exist ignorant? it might even be the thinking of someone who struggles with yes or no's preferring the open door of ambiguity and confusion?

KAGU143 wrote: Here's the real deal, as it is currently understood in 2016:
Image
At the very bottom of the triangle, thanks to the nature of geometry, there is only room for one person, and since a community cannot consist of only one person, and because some people genuinely do fall between the cracks, I changed DJ's original triangle to the shaded version quite a few years ago. He approved, AVEN approved, and it has remained a shaded triangle ever since. Until or unless SCIENCE can find a better answer, this is the best we have.

Get with the times, PiF.
A parade of one person isn't a parade. It's just one person making a lot of noise.


One person in a parade can be just as true as the parade around them..example, Martin Luther King whilst on the million man march

This made me laugh... you go on as though this has been created by some within our movement so must be true and definitive....and yet the definition of Asexuality that we have used since 2001, and by dj and the community is wrong according to you...interesting pick and choose

You define asexuality as being at the bottom of the triangle so there must only be room for one person...that is more yes or no than I have ever been..if you pronounce that as definitive then asexuality is only one person...with so many vaguities it's no wonder some get confused so let me help

Asexuality is not an orientation, it is simply it's own thing... similar thing to Trans...it's own thing....you are or you are not. As to orientation then you will be either straight, gay or bi. This isn't difficult in fact it is incredibly simple

Let me show an approach some agree with...Do you eat meat? no I am a vegatarian but I do eat fish. Pardon me mam but that is not what a vegetarian is....oh yes it damm well is and I will describe it however I want...you may do mam but, you still won't be a vegetarian.

That is not being elitist, anti, or even lacking empathy but more if you use a description it should be an accurate description. That accuracy helps others as a definitive to say yes or no that is not me.
________________________

KAGU143 wrote: In regards to the Tea Party: It's the radical right-wing group that has tried to take over the Republican party, and sadly, has had quite a bit of success at doing so. They first chose to identify themselves with the Boston Tea Party as a way to attempt to present themselves as ordinary citizens rebelling against an unjust government. They failed to do their history homework, but that is no surprise. They are uneducated, paranoid, greedy, bigoted, and yet self-righteous to a nauseating degree.


Given the shutting down of others by the modern youth social justice warriors in universities...I can see the tea party numbers swelling dramatically :lol: soon

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 18 Jun 2016, 14:18

"I'm aware our own census, like the 2015 one that is being hidden from us"
Hahahahahaha.... oh piffy you really make me laugh out loud sometimes. Thanks for that one. Really.

On other topics, I will disagree with Nancy on one minor point: there's room for more than one person at the bottom of the triangle because there's no reason multiple people can't occupy the same point of the triangle. It's logically possible for there to be more than one absolute, complete 100% asexual in existence. Now whether there are or not is another matter.

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 18 Jun 2016, 16:02

Okay, I will concede, but I was being sort of facetious. (Discussing things Arguing with PiF, I sometimes can't help myself.)
In geometry, the intersection of two lines is a single point, is it not? And a point is infinitely small? I was thinking of the idea that two things cannot occupy the same space, and also poking a bit of fun at PiF for being a parade of one.
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 18 Jun 2016, 21:00

Care to share where it is after 7 months then michael? aven can put walls up to keep muggles out in 4 days but can't release member contributed data in 7 months?..okay michael , I believe you.... :lol: :lol:

You know the 2015 will confirm more or less, the 2014 census which will show as far as online asexuality is concerned, those claiming to asexual of some kind will be on "the spectrum" white, female with a pink twist, at college/uni and most dissapear after 26...now to have that confirmed by a second years census would rather give rise to a fair valuation of asexuality online as a phase and nothing more

That isn't what you want to take the movement forward with. My point here is, to make the movement seem bigger than it is,any man and his dog have been allowed to call themselves asexual but when looked at closer...full time asexuals are an incredibly rare thing and we should stop kidding ourselves for the sake of numbers over accuracy.

There is nothing wrong with being smaller, more accurate, more representative and proud of who we are


Don't worry Nancy, I know the red mist consumes you sometimes :lol:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 18 Jun 2016, 22:39

PiF wrote:You know the 2015 will confirm more or less, the 2014 census which will show as far as online asexuality is concerned, those claiming to asexual of some kind will be on "the spectrum" white, female with a pink twist, at college/uni and most dissapear after 26...now to have that confirmed by a second years census would rather give rise to a fair valuation of asexuality online as a phase and nothing more


Hahahaha... oh goodness me. The conspiracy theories you come up with.

Or alternatively: yes PiF you're right. The survey shows all those things so we had to suppress it. Because it's actually a big secret that the online asexual community is mostly young and largely female or non-binary, and has lots of grays in it. We are deeply embarrassed about all those facts but luckily no-one else apart from you seems to have noticed them till now. So I'd appreciate it if you'd keep it to yourself. Once the cat is out the bag, we're all dooooooomed. :ohnoes:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 18 Jun 2016, 23:50

8 months after it was compiled...it not being visible...in anyway...Is not a conspiracy dear fellow but more a short and basic fact

I'm glad you agree with me..you should be embarrased , hardly a project team if you hide the results...silly rascal :P :lol:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 19 Jun 2016, 02:26

Oh wow! That was a quick month that just passed between your two posts (7 months to 8 months).

Well... we're just looking out for the future of our gravy train ... er I mean asexuality. After all, if we let these results out.... kaboom. No more asexuality. That would be sad.

Actually we'll release something eventually, but we'll need to whitewash er I mean ... make corrective adjustments to the results slightly first. I'm sure you'll understand.

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 19 Jun 2016, 03:06

Well as you know yourself with your big announcement, time flies by so easily :D

There is no gravy train in asexuality....F*ck me, they can't organise a forum without putting walls up on a visibility site, so I'd never trust them to make money, Gravy? they have enough trouble with water.

Admods redacting and editing out relevant facts? perish the thought

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 19 Jun 2016, 03:10

Oh drat! Guess we'll have to try another scam then. Tarot cards anyonnnnne? :lol:

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 19 Jun 2016, 03:26

How about a forum that is meant for asexuals but really it's full of sexuals pretending to be asexuals?...O no that one's been done :D :D

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 19 Jun 2016, 04:12

Right, you're behind. We've already done that. Though the new word is "allosexual" - we're banning the word "sexual". I hope you don't mind, being an allosexual lezza snowflake yourself. :lol:

edit: oh I almost forgot, in response to Nancy:
"Okay, I will concede, but I was being sort of facetious. (Discussing things Arguing with PiF, I sometimes can't help myself.)"

I on the other hand would never dream of engaging in this behaviour when talking to piffy: I am always completely sensible all the time, definitely never facetious or silly...

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby KAGU143 » 19 Jun 2016, 05:19

flergalwit wrote:Right, you're behind. We've already done that. Though the new word is "allosexual" - we're banning the word "sexual". I hope you don't mind, being an allosexual lezza snowflake yourself. :lol:

edit: oh I almost forgot, in response to Nancy:
"Okay, I will concede, but I was being sort of facetious. (Discussing things Arguing with PiF, I sometimes can't help myself.)"

I on the other hand would never dream of engaging in this behaviour when talking to piffy: I am always completely sensible all the time, definitely never facetious or silly...


I just want to mention that I've really missed having you around the site, flergalwit, and I'm SOOO glad to see you again!
Welcome back! :clap:
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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby PiF » 19 Jun 2016, 05:34

Ha ha your so yesterdays news..we dealt with allosexual since the 4th feb and on a number of times..keep up chap keep up

"Okay, I will concede, but I was being sort of fuzzyfacius."

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Re: Equality or snowflake protectionism ?

Postby flergalwit » 21 Jun 2016, 09:15

Thank you Nancy! And congrats pif; I didn't know you'd learnt Latin. :P


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