This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

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PiF
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This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 04 Jan 2015, 14:49

I saw a thread in the clown forum and I facepalmed

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1118 ... sexuality/

so I went and had a look and this is what it was referring too http://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/conte ... t-want-sex

Now if you have been a real Asexual long enough then this won't be the first time we have seen asexuals incorrectly promoted as people who do not have sex

This is what happens when you have people tinkering with definitions to be all inclusive instead of being accurate. It won't be the last time someone thinking they are asexual (when they are not) going out to the world telling people wrongly what an asexual is but it does highlight how we have to correct innacuracies about who we are and what asexuality is but also be aware what others who know shit, are trying to do with our identity.

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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 09 Jan 2015, 22:20

Thought I'd offer this little nugget :rofl: :lol:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1124 ... oxication/

Apparently your still asexual when your sober...even if when your drunk you then have sexual attraction.....what is more worrying is just how many sheep that commented on it after and not one said, hey bud..your not asexual if that happens but more likely you are emotionally repressed to a point that the alcohol allows that repression to relax and this is not what asexuality is......but, this is what is going on unchecked and promoted by the largest asexual information site on the internet....

Come on guys, in your own forum you have people defining asexuality depending on how much alcohol they have????...at what point do you start to think..hey, we really need to start informing people about what and what we are not and perhaps we have let the rudderless ship if misinformation sail on it's own too long..as moderators and admins you have the ability to promote what we should be proud of and correct where it isn't what we are...I have to ask, why have you let it get so bad and what do you intend to do about it? otherwise it looks like you all became mods just to ban people. Put Asexuality instead of your embarrassed pride at getting it wrong and you'll see if genuine...there are ways we can work together...Asexuality and real asexuals deserve better and you can do better if you wish

Some may moan I'm anti Aven, I'm not...I am positive in trying to promote correctly what an asexual is so when people come looking...they leave clearer than when they came...and in Aven, that is very unlikely...however, when sites work together a bit more, singing a clearer and more widely recognised definition, correcting where it's clearly stupid but still retaining individual site approaches then we can bring it round I feel

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KAGU143
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby KAGU143 » 10 Jan 2015, 09:09

I would agree that the OP of that thread doesn't sound asexual to me. Sexually inhibited seems more likely, at least on the face of it without actually knowing the person.

I looked through the comments that have been posted so far, though, and I don't see them the way that you do. It looks to me like the people are generally saying what I would say, which is that no amount of alcohol is going to make me want sex with somebody enough to initiate it. I would always rather read a good book, listen to music, go to the zoo, or almost anything else ... except for maybe dental surgery. (I would have to think on that one.)

However, alcohol really does reduce inhibitions and it also impairs judgement. (I like the comment about beer goggles.) It's probably the world's oldest date rape drug, so for an indifferent asexual it might be enough to make them say, "Okay ... whatever."
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

PiF
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 10 Jan 2015, 10:14

I know the great unwashed discourages the yes you are and no your not, but not one said something like...you say you feel asexual but then you say you experience sexual attraction...have you ever looked into ...then list the thing/s it might be...sexually inhibited, sexually repulsed, social anxiety, low libido, celibacy, sexual apathy etc

None of them appear to want to address the elephant in the room

True I would say if your feeling it then no your not..but there are other ways to stop missconceptions of what an asexual is not..other than just ignoring it and in doing so....promoting what is isn't

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KAGU143
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby KAGU143 » 10 Jan 2015, 14:28

As I recall, AVEN used to have a strict policy forbidding anybody from telling someone whether they are or are not asexual, (at the very least, it was STRONGLY discouraged) and if that's still true then the members who are replying can't really speak their minds so they are talking around that elephant in the corner rather than addressing it directly.

AVEN has ...
Too.
Many.
Rules.

*rolls eyes*
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

PiF
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 10 Jan 2015, 23:54

I believe they still have the rule of not saying yes or no which is why I tended to do the ..you say your asexual but from what you've described have you considered looking at.... then give them a direction that you feel is more accurate as it's clear that they would not be asexual...this challenges their definition by offering a better direction based on their own supplied information without saying yes or no...this did fit in with their yes or no rules

There are constants in history where people have turned blind eyes for convenience or fear and let bad things happen .....and as we are trying to promote our own strengths and positives as asexuals...we should not idly stand by whilst who we are is wrongly portrayed.

Skirt the boundaries of the rules but never break them and yes you will have noticed almost weekly Aven has constantly implemented rules upon rules and updates of rules with little or no consultation with it's members and if you notice the bannings they will tend to be (apart from obvious trolls/spammers)..the bannings will largely be those who have questioned the direction Aven is taking asexuality.

Take away the social aspect of the Aven which has encouraged innacuracies in favour of numbers and inclusivity and those who are asexual have been isolated when they have tried to say, hey that isn't what we are, Interestingly wrongfull identity is promoted but correct projection is frowned upon and of those some are punished

If you stand idly by watching something going wrong when you know it is wrong and do nothing, then you stand accused of turning that blind eye whilst others fight the fight of trying to promote the positives of what is right and if the controlling body is uncomfortable with that truth and they then turn on those pointing it out rather than change it themselves, then you have to ask is the controlling body the right body to be controlling?

Persecuting the messenger has long been the out of the socially inadequate in power...me I think Asexuals and asexuality deserves to be represented by all sides and not just the ones who are in full agreement with those who can inflict a ban to those who feel differently.

Seeing a wrongfull projection and a blatant wrongfull projection of what an asexual is and not challenging it...is at the moment ..the norm and until we challenge and are allowed to challenge without fear of wrongfull retribution from those in a position to inflict such a thing....then the wrong message of what an asexual is will seem to be the dominant one and one we will struggle to correct in future years. Once the hat is out of the bag, you will not be able to get it back in, you simply won't as you never get a second chance for a first impression.

We as Asexuals should take more pride in who and what we are, have the honesty to say what we are and what we are not but also be prepared to challenge those who in our name...are projecting asexuality wrongly to the detriment of asexuality. We are a small group and will always be a small group and that is why, more than ever before ....we accurately inform others about asexuality...we deserve that at the very least. it is far better to be small in numbers but high in accuracy rather than larger in numbers but filled with doubt and inaccuracy

As asexuals and I mean actual asexuals..we very much have our own future in front of us...based on Avens projection of what happens in the forums as asexuality..i think most can understand that at the moment we are not doing ourselves the best way forward and have lost control a bit, my suggestion is that we take control of our own destiny and direction a bit more so we own the correct definition we can take forward to others.

Asexuals deserve better, we deserve better but sometimes we ourselves must make the effort personally to make things better also and not leave it to others who have lost the faith and accuracy we need.

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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby flergalwit » 11 Jan 2015, 01:14

PiF wrote:I saw a thread in the clown forum and I facepalmed

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1118 ... sexuality/

so I went and had a look and this is what it was referring too http://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/conte ... t-want-sex

Now if you have been a real Asexual long enough then this won't be the first time we have seen asexuals incorrectly promoted as people who do not have sex

This is what happens when you have people tinkering with definitions to be all inclusive instead of being accurate. It won't be the last time someone thinking they are asexual (when they are not) going out to the world telling people wrongly what an asexual is but it does highlight how we have to correct innacuracies about who we are and what asexuality is but also be aware what others who know shit, are trying to do with our identity.

What in the world are you on about? The article gives the standard definition of asexuality - lack of sexual attraction - in its very first proper paragraph.

Are asexuals supposed not to say "I don't want sex" even when it's true for them?

PiF wrote:Thought I'd offer this little nugget :rofl: :lol:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1124 ... oxication/

Apparently your still asexual when your sober...even if when your drunk you then have sexual attraction.....what is more worrying is just how many sheep that commented on it after and not one said, hey bud..your not asexual if that happens but more likely you are emotionally repressed to a point that the alcohol allows that repression to relax and this is not what asexuality is......but, this is what is going on unchecked and promoted by the largest asexual information site on the internet....

Uh you mean like this:
PingPong, can we learn more about why you dismiss the possibility of you being a latent sexual whose sexuality is suppressed by shyness or something else when you're sober? (It's not bad - it's always good when you learn more about yourself.)

Or did you miss that?

PiF wrote:Come on guys, in your own forum you have people defining asexuality depending on how much alcohol they have????

People express all kinds of wacky ideas on AVEN. They do here too. It's an internet forum.

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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 11 Jan 2015, 02:22

Absolutely Michael asexuals can say if they wish to have sex or not and that is not what I said as you well full know. The article like so many based around asexuality, was wrong in it's projection as again like so many incorrectly reported on..defines asexuality as a wish or no wish for sex..we both know that to be celibacy

the title of the article...Sexual Healing? No thanks: The secret life of the Brits who just don't want sex..within that article it also had ....“I’m not romantically attracted to anyone,” she said. “I just want to be surrounded with my best friends and snuggle up while watching TV...neither of those are asexuality

Now Michael unless you read the article with your usual rose tinted aven glasses on..like normal.. even you must recognise those are nothing to do with asexuality at all as they could easily apply and mostly does apply to .....sexuals

Can I ask you mr politician for a simple yes or no answer..if someone said to you I am asexual...I know this because when I am sober I don't have sexual attraction and when I am drunk I do have sexual attraction would you say that person is asexual...none of your usual drifting and wishy washy diversionary answers...just a simple yes or no if you please

There is a difference between some people having wacky ideas on aven ...and aven itself being the largest confuser of what an asexual is...35 pages anyone? http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1047 ... efinition/

As the largest asexual site Michael, aven has a moral and ethical obligation to correctly steer us forward and be as accurate as possible to those seeking information on asexuality.

At the moment it is failing that because it is largely a rudderless ship with some in positions that could make it better choosing not too.

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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby flergalwit » 11 Jan 2015, 02:45

PiF wrote:Absolutely Michael asexuals can say if they wish to have sex or not and that is not what I said as you well full know. The article like so many based around asexuality, was wrong in it's projection as again like so many incorrectly reported on..

Actually it defines asexuality correctly in its first paragraph:
... identify as asexual, meaning they do not feel sexual attraction towards any gender.

Back to you:
PiF wrote:defines asexuality as a wish or no wish for sex..we both know that to be celibacy

Wrong. Celibacy is a *choice* not to have sex, not a *wish* not to have sex. Wishing not to have sex is far closer to asexuality than celibacy is.

PiF wrote:the title of the article...Sexual Healing? No thanks: The secret life of the Brits who just don't want sex..within that article it also had ....“I’m not romantically attracted to anyone,” she said. “I just want to be surrounded with my best friends and snuggle up while watching TV...neither of those are asexuality

It's one version of asexuality - her version. Many asexual people can relate to that. I can. Not all asexuals, but she didn't say she was speaking for all asexuals.

PiF wrote:Can I ask you mr politician for a simple yes or no answer..if someone said to you I am asexual...I know this because when I am sober I don't have sexual attraction and when I am drunk I do have sexual attraction would you say that person is asexual...none of your usual drifting and wishy washy diversionary answers...just a simple yes or no if you please

Sorry, you're not getting a yes or no answer. My answer is: "by the usual definition, no - sounds more gray-A than asexual - but it's up to you how to identify."

PiF wrote:There is a difference between some people having wacky ideas on aven ...and aven itself being the largest confuser of what an asexual is...35 pages anyone? http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1047 ... efinition/

If members want to discuss an alternative definition, what's wrong with that? You're not suggesting the mods should ban the discussion of alternatives to AVEN's main definition, surely?

We are about to start a revamp of the front page. We will not be changing the main definition but I'm going to suggest we include a page on alternative ways of defining asexuality to better represent parts of the community who don't agree with the main definition. So I guess that's gonna be confusing things even more. :p

PiF
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 11 Jan 2015, 04:07

You do make me chuckle Michael

You even admit that adding more confusion to the definition is your intent....Bare in mind I have been saying that Aven identifies asexuality correctly in the heading but the minute you go into the forum you see a deaf mute one legged lesbian black dog could call themselves asexual based on the willingness of avens officials to turn a blind convenient eye on the current silliness of membership numbers over accuracy.

What is it that you find so offensive in a truthfull definition? why is it the defining standard of who and what we are is so offensive to you and those wishing to make it like a social club you can pop in and out of when ever the time suits no matter what the consequences.

We should be proud about who we are and what makes us different... and not seeking to diminish ourselves with falsehoods and panderances for viewing figures, we are worth more than that and if you think that creating more confusion and doubt about what an asexual is will help us inform others....then Michael you are part of the problem and not the solution..the fact you refuse to see it is something you will have to sort out while the rest of us try and move forward in trying to project and inform others accurately.

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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby flergalwit » 11 Jan 2015, 04:11

PiF wrote:You do make me chuckle Michael

Good, I aim to please.

PiF wrote:You even admit that adding more confusion to the definition is your intent....

No, I'm saying that this is what you're going to think...

PiF wrote:What is it that you find so offensive in a truthfull definition? why is it the defining standard of who and what we are is so offensive to you and those wishing to make it like a social club you can pop in and out of when ever the time suits no matter what the consequences.

There's nothing offensive about the definition. It's a definition I agree with and use myself.

It's more that I like to be able to accomomdate people who disagree with me on this. Since you're always going on about how AVEN stifles alternative opinions, I'd have thought you'd agree with me on this, that we should allow other views on the forums.

PiF
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Re: This is what happens when you promote Asexuality wrongly

Postby PiF » 11 Jan 2015, 06:09

Absolutely people should have their views and opinions, I don't think you will find anywhere I have said they cannot... I think where we differ is that you seem to want asexuality to be open to everyone whilst ignoring that very same directions causes doubt and concerns over wether we are genuine or not

My drive is the accurate projection of what an asexual is and I use the definition as a guide...you seem to favour treating asexuality like a accessory list when choosing a car wether you can drive or not, I see positive projection through accuracy and you appear to see promotion through numbers with minimal accuracy.

At some point avens forums have to accept asexuality has more doubters of asexuality because of aven and it's directions of vaguity

We can hardly convince others we are genuine if the definition is like ghandis flip flop... a shoe for all instead of just Ghandi :patpat:


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