we have expletive deleted?

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hexaquark
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby hexaquark » 09 Dec 2011, 15:36

I was going to stay out of this because I don’t much feel that it is my place. I can easily follow a simple rule that doesn’t put me out too much, even if I don’t agree it. Fine, no worries, seems a bit silly but it is your site.

However, while I obviously don’t claim to speak for PIF, I think I’m with PIF on this one.

This isn’t at all about the censorship of one word in question, it’s the things you are saying to justify it.

Through this thread, when you guys talk about Apositive being a “publication” with “high standards” and say that using that slang is “low-class” and that the posters here only maintain a level of discourse that is articulate, I start to think that I don’t want to post here at all because… well not everyone is good with words and not everyone is high class. Does that make us less worthwhile?

It creates this impression that everyone is so judgmental about quality of posting that my neuroticism kicks in and I think that reading and not saying anything is, in my case, more appropriate.

I mean, for me it is probably just my shitty poor level of self esteem, and I'm the first to admit that I am bad at teh internetz, but it is all coming off as rather snobby.

unngnh this isn’t coming out well at all, I’m not fishing for anything. Put it this way, if you just said, “we don’t want these words used on Apositive and we will censor them, because we believe they are not conducive to our discussions” and stopped there, then that’s one thing. I understand that you were trying to come up with a good reason because people were pressing for one, but as soon as you bring classism or the deterioration of language into defending it, or imply that people who f*ck are just using each other, there is this huge value judgement that comes into play. I apologize in advance, I don't want to step on your toes, this is just how I read into it.

(And now I have to force myself to post this, because I kid you not, the majority of the things that I type I immediately delete. Like I said: Bad. At. Internet.)

michaels
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby michaels » 11 Dec 2011, 23:19

Nancy, do you now see what the sophists are capable of doing to a person, without even putting their full range of word-twisting skills to use?

Basically, you're being told that you have to run Apositive the way others want you to. Think about that carefully, and think about what it implies.

I'm sorry that you've come under this kind of sneaky, underhanded personal attack from the AVEN commandos.

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Olivier
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby Olivier » 12 Dec 2011, 00:29

Michael, before I respond more fully to your post, I'd like you to be specific if you're including me as one of the people you're making these allegations against.

PiF
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby PiF » 12 Dec 2011, 01:03

I am leaving and will after these last few posts today.

Michael as usual just as the thread was quietening down ...you seek to provoke it into action again where there was no need too.

leaving I can express myself more freely and I feel my opinion may not be the only one about your time in apositive..as it was in aven

michaels wrote:Nancy, do you now see what the sophists are capable of doing to a person, without even putting their full range of word-twisting skills to use?.


Michael the use of the particular word was not the issue, the unfair and offensive reasoning for it's restriction was

michaels wrote:Basically, you're being told that you have to run Apositive the way others want you to. Think about that carefully, and think about what it implies..



There was a restriction on the site that many who were involved within the discussion felt was not needed and the justification behind it was offensive ...it was pointed out to Nancy and Kæth why it was felt that way. They gave a re-emphisis of what the site is and isn't to them and basically said it will not change as long as they own and run the site

acknowledging that.. some like myself out of respect for nancy and Kæth...are moving on from apositive, some stay whilst still unhappy on this one issue and others stay because they have no problem with it

michaels wrote:I'm sorry that you've come under this kind of sneaky, underhanded personal attack from the AVEN commandos.


Please please please do enlighten us once and for all Michael on this aven commandos? the sneaky underhanded part michael is where you continue to apply this to some whilst avoiding truthfully saying who..time to put up or shut up buttercup...because after making this false allegation several times..you have never have clarified it when asked but instead resort to sinking back under the bridge from wence you came

should you check the names of those within this discussion the greater amount like yourself...do NOT use aven or use it so little they often forget they even have an aven account!

Promoting asexuality and in particular apositive whilst a person such as yourself Michael is here...who is nothing more than a mentalist ...is incredibly hard to do ..to bring new blood into apositive whilst you again seek to return it back to your individual mentalist daily blog is far more damaging than this one argument has offered.

Michael I cannot begin to calculate the amount of damage you alone are doing to apositive and why it stays emptier than a sarah palin iq seminar... but damaging apositive more than any other member you are

To those that remain..I wish you well..to nancy and Kæth ..I think your wrong but admire your determination and good luck with apositive <3

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KAGU143
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby KAGU143 » 12 Dec 2011, 05:14

'Sorry to see you go, PiF. I hope you reconsider at some point, and if/when you do, the door will be open. (And I TOLD you that you have the ability to be very articulate, dyslexia or not!) I took out the worst of your unnecessary stabs at Michael, but some of your analogies were pretty good. ("emptier than a sarah palin iq seminar" - ROTFL!)

Michael, I don't feel as if I have been subjected to any kind of underhanded attack, and I really don't believe in such a thing as AVEN commandos, but I will readily admit that I have been both surprised and dismayed by the amount of outrage over this very trivial issue. I do appreciate the support, though, and - for the record - I don't believe that your presence has harmed Apositive in any way.

This mess has caused me to do quite a bit of online research into the origins and usage of the word "f*ck", as well as the various degrees to which it is restricted in different countries. Very interesting. A complete language dissertation could probably be done on this one word alone, but that isn't my area of expertise. My investigation is still ongoing, but in the meantime, very quietly, I have modified the word censor so that it can be disabled by registered members if they wish to do so.

I will also be changing the default substitution to f*ck, which is the best compromise that I have been able to come up with. "Nod-nod, wink-wink" indeed, as Olivier put it. That's exactly what it is, but the same thing could be said for most of the customs which we associate with good manners.
It's the best I can do. Take it or leave it.

I want to make it very clear that I expect Apositive's members to think carefully about what they post, and to make this website a place that we can be proud of - even if we should be visited by a hoarde of elderly Sunday school teachers.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

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Dargon
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby Dargon » 12 Dec 2011, 08:21

You know, I think changing the word filter to "f*ck" seems a pretty fair compromise. It still allows for the original intent to come across and does not harm readability, while at the same time politely discouraging its use.

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Olivier
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Re: we have expletive deleted?

Postby Olivier » 12 Dec 2011, 08:35

Thanks, Nancy. I did notice the f-filter was gone (for me anyway, I have always had it turned off in my profile). I really do think that letting people decide for themselves (and defaulting guests to "filtered") is the best solution, given that the software is capable of that. Since it's a personal choice to turn the filter on, I'd have no problem with a greater redaction than "f*ck". For a long time we had an optional filter that went all the way to "[expletive deleted]", and that seemed fine to everyone.

Michael, I've decided not to reply to your ridiculous post as a birthday present to Nancy.


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