Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

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SubHuman
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » 29 May 2016, 12:34

The problem is that the pt do some important stuff (like they are actually spreading asexual awarness, rather than playing politicians). Would be rather sad if it were not filled because of lack of interest. Maybe Michael and Aqua become the only PT's :O

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PiF
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 29 May 2016, 12:44

I agree, publicly away from the sexual site aven has become instead of an asexual one, the pt were/are the only thing that really pushes asexuality into the real world

I doubt if the remaining two can suddenly, if at all..take up the slack of a team of 5...asexual visibility as we know it, will collapse.

Although as you mention politics and the pt...they are still surpressing the 2015 census which would confirm the 2014 census's finding..which was not favourable to asexuality.

I hope they can sort it out..we will find out Friday

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby CosineTheCat » 30 May 2016, 03:43

I can't speak for everyone, but I can say this. As much as I loved being part of the team, the team had a couple people that did basically all the work. I've noticed that with almost all the areas of AVEN I've been on. Anyone who has been on any section of admods knows that too. Meh, I might go back but right now I don't think I could handle being part of the admod team without my biggest supports and encouragements from the people that regularly helped me.

So, I stepped down.

I do think that if I were to go back and run for admods I'd get in again. Right now though, due to the giant slant in work ethic/lacking I'm slightly tiffed at asexual visibility and I'm going to enjoy not being a part of admods. It's going to be weird no longer having all the forums, but eh, comes with stepping down right? No more drama llamas for me :lol:
Howdy.
I'm PINK.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » 30 May 2016, 05:06

Well too bad that some dissuade you from it. Lacking work ethics? :p Are they using child labor or using union busting techniques?

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 30 May 2016, 05:08

Drama lhamas? you been talking to Zeal haven't you :lol:

Hi Cat, good to see your point of view. Personally I think for you at this moment you did the right thing...I think most people who volunteer do so at the beginning because they feel they can make a difference and often put more in than they thought they ever would...but when it starts to turn into ..people are taking the piss...then it can become something people lose the love for and that is when I feel, it's best to take a step away and re-evaluate.

Absolutely there might be a time when you feel it could be for you again and you should if you want too

I think who ever is is blocking changes for equality and accountability within the backroom..needs to understand the damage they are doing not only to Asexuality but Aven and also the backroom itself..the very same people they work with..there is no team if only one or two of the team are making the effort

As much as I am painted as a pyriah..some in the team need to be honest with themselves and realise they are doing far more damage to their own team mates more than I ever could.

Change can be scary for some..but it's gone beyond simple disagreements...I think those who take the piss within the backroom need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask two simple questions....why did I join the backroom...and have I made it worse or better?

Whatever you decide..it has to be right for you and in this moment being away from the team is right...your always welcome here though ..and if i get on your nerves...just tell Nancy of Tan, they always tend to gibbs slap me when I least expect it :oops:

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 30 May 2016, 07:31

Most ex admods who stand do get in again - in my case I have most of the admod team against me so it will never happen. It's hard when people think I'm being vindictive - it will be years before my resignation thread is declassified; not that I blame the DT at all, I know they're working hard to get through the backlog. I still have a copy of my resignation post; maybe admods will agree to me posting it (redacting all the names of course). I seriously doubt it but hey worth a try :P :D
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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♥ Steph ♥
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby ♥ Steph ♥ » 30 May 2016, 07:38

In other news. I've finished the organizational structure for my future Organization. Still working on a name though.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » 30 May 2016, 07:41

Howard's Apostles sound nice in my ears.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 30 May 2016, 08:30

Tan...You have nothing to lose by submitting an edited version asking to release that? It wouldn't add work to the declass and the only ones who would object don't really matter as they have lost their independence and impartiality any way

Steph is it still Asexual visibility ?

Howards angels ?

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby ♥ Steph ♥ » 30 May 2016, 08:38

PiF wrote:Steph is it still Asexual visibility ?


It's LGBTQ+ which will include an Asexuality Section. My current idea for the website (which is currently in development - planning stage) is that the forums will be in 'tabs' at the top, in the colours of the rainbow.

White will be Website Forums (Site Info, Announcements, Rules, site responsibilities, etc)
Red will be Heterosexuality and Allies
Yellow will be Homosexuality/ (Gays & Lesbians)
Orange will be Bisexuality/Pansexuality
Green will be Transgendered
Blue will be Media, Research, etc
Purple will be Creative department
Black will be Asexuality

These can all change (The colors aren't fixed but I want each to have a meaning to the categories). I personally don't like Asexuality hidden in the back so I'll try to figure something out. Otherwise yeah, things are underway!

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 30 May 2016, 09:06

Can I ask, purely out of interest. We had many polls in aven about asexuality being seen as part of the lgbtqwerrtyuiopooplop and more than most said no based on many asexuals are not gay/queer or even sexual.

How will your project represent those asexuals if your including asexuality?

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » 30 May 2016, 10:28

What is your project?

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KAGU143
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby KAGU143 » 30 May 2016, 17:05

A lot of good ideas, Steph.
I'm interested in seeing what you do.
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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 31 May 2016, 02:47

It looks promising and I look forward to being able to have a look at it. Are your work colleagues from AVEN (Cosine and LPP) working with you in this or is it a solo effort? I hope you'll keep us updated :)
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby ♥ Steph ♥ » 31 May 2016, 04:50

To answer Pif's question. My own ideology is that Asexuality has a place in the LGBTQ+ alphabet soup due to the extensive overlap with different identities (1 in 5 are trans, many have romantic partners of same sex, kinks, etc) and that I view LGBTQ+ as a 'misfits/ those that don't fit heteronormativity' label.
Sorry, I won't coddle the asexuals who feel we have no place. I'm huge on networking and having allies (As you can see by the organization I'm proposing)

As for Tan's question; this is going to be a joint effort in conception. LPP has software developing experience (They're a computer security major) and we'll be developing the website. Cosine will be managing social media (As her skills there were amazing during her time on the PT). As for introducing others into the project, the more the merrier! I've already sent a PM to Nancy hinting that we will work together in the future (although since the idea is shifting so much I haven't responded yet - I just know that I want to include as many people/ networks as possible).

Right now the largest issue is the website development and the website hosting. I'm not prepared to spend $60 a month for a website at this stage. Once I get around that; then we'll see!

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 31 May 2016, 06:41

♥ Steph ♥ wrote: To answer Pif's question. My own ideology is that Asexuality has a place in the LGBTQ+ alphabet soup due to the extensive overlap with different identities (1 in 5 are trans, many have romantic partners of same sex, kinks, etc) and that I view LGBTQ+ as a 'misfits/ those that don't fit heteronormativity' label.
Sorry, I won't coddle the asexuals who feel we have no place. I'm huge on networking and having allies (As you can see by the organization I'm proposing)


Does this mean that 4 in 5 are not the group you propose? :mrgreen: As a straight asexual with nothing in common with a queer and very sexually active body, it won't be for me. I have no problem with individual members who may have a pink bias but to paint the whole asexual movement as pink would be wrong.

♥ Steph ♥ wrote:As for Tan's question; this is going to be a joint effort in conception. LPP has software developing experience (They're a computer security major) and we'll be developing the website. Cosine will be managing social media (As her skills there were amazing during her time on the PT). As for introducing others into the project, the more the merrier! I've already sent a PM to Nancy hinting that we will work together in the future (although since the idea is shifting so much I haven't responded yet - I just know that I want to include as many people/ networks as possible).


This makes perfect sense, you all have an expertise and seem very pro active in your fields, it must be an axciting time for you all to have the ability to make a real difference in what you do

♥ Steph ♥ wrote: Right now the largest issue is the website development and the website hosting. I'm not prepared to spend $60 a month for a website at this stage. Once I get around that; then we'll see!


I don't know who Nancy uses but might be worth asking, also the conventional type of sites with a lower cost at the beginning then seek larger sites/abilities as your need grows? Obviously the lack of forward planning aven has will not be an issue for your project I feel as you all seem to be more into planning in advance and regularly will match need vs expansion and do it accordingly and quickly

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby ♥ Steph ♥ » 31 May 2016, 07:56

#DealWithIt

I don't mind taking a stand, however the inclusion approach will always triumph over the exclusionary approach. More people equates to more resources, more people. Exclusionary, while 'pure' is limited in its community.

Besides; the end goal for myself is awareness, making changes and helping others be the best they can be. I see no reason to exclude a dozen to appease a few. If you notice its an LGBTQ+ organization, not an asexual one.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 31 May 2016, 08:03

AVEN has lost 3 great assets. As PiF said, you're gathering expertise and resources- so much planning is going into it, I really hope it's going to be successful. You all deserve it
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 31 May 2016, 09:00

Inclusion is fine until the very reason for why something exists is swamped by everything the original thing was seeking to leave behind

Aven was the only asexual place at the time because we had nothing other than to be in other peoples places such the libidoist forums. So we left to find our own place and over time a few, not many, came to exist then inclusism came into aven to a point that the forum is now a mostly sexual forum with different shades within the sexual spectrum leaving it as a genuine asexual forum, greatly diminshed. If anything, inclusism in aven has shown what happens when you get it wrong

That's why I asked whether if was going to be added or promoted as part of the lgbt franchise in which case a more balanced and honest informative guide would declare the lgbt association is NOT widely accepted amongst all asexuals #foraccuracy :P :D

I rarely measure quality by numbers alone

addendum..I'll start a seperate thread rather than carry this one on the dangers of wrongly identifying asexuality and the long term damage

In regards to your project steph, I'm sure given you've seen how not to do it in aven that you and the others will have a very good go at your new project and I'm looking forward to see what you all do

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 02 Jun 2016, 00:18

You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 02 Jun 2016, 04:35

Yeah I can, although now I've said that they will probably put up the wall around it like the rest :lol:

The declass thread on policies , I wonder if that is an offer to the members or a policy requirement under the npo status? whatever it is I think we know why they would not retro apply. One, just how far are you supposed to go back and 2, certianly on the "walls for member safety" most would see that was bullshit to keep certian people out :D ...still it is what it is..but the declass on the term limits discussion will be an interesting read but I suspect the usual characters blocking it will be of little surprise

the second..the npo

About time but a welcome addition...if for no other reason than the intended upgrade to the site tech side...the site may now be a social forum than an asexual one but those using it they do tend to be addicted and it's no fun when your regular forum goes down more than a cheap hooker

On the donations side I would offer a caveat and possibly an edit into their terms. How they word it is upto them...we know aven is full of emo kids and most of those are sexual pretending to be asexual and that often leads ro hissy fits..what aven needs to do is distinguish and make clear the difference between aven membership and donations...it will only be a matter of time before one of those banned people then try and ask for their donation back...believing the donation and membership are linked...again more for the site to protect itself..make the difference clear

I did find this bit hugely funny Board members can offer to mediate disputes that might arise within the teams should that occur.

One of the board members is one of the biggest reasons for unrest within the backroom.... and the others have largely turned a blind eye to a 60% walk out by the pt...police policing the police rarely works, especailly when some of them have a dubious forum past

So organisationaly and ignoring members I doubt anything will change...It will continue to be a social media site for sexuals pretending to be asexuals whilst isolating full time asexuals and failing asexual visability

If and it's a a big if, based on actual avens history of projects..then the only benefit I can see is funding to promote better tech and site stability even if it is 6-18 months away..and that is a real positive if/when it happens

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 02 Jun 2016, 05:02

It's the thread about the trial for (about?) term time limits. I have every confidence the Declass Team will do their part.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 02 Jun 2016, 06:41

Yeah saw that too. I certainly feel more confident about the work the declass team are doing more than the admod team.

It should be an interesting read to see who values openness, democracy and valuing members wishes..and those who don't.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 03 Jun 2016, 07:29

Avens 2 year term limits discussion has been declassified..thank you dt...at least you respect the members wishes :clap: :clap:

It will not come as any surprise that some within the admod team feel you as members, are not entitled to have members you vote in, to be accountable

It will come as no surprise as seen by the discussion thread, some whilst "wanting to give something back to the community"..actually mean....F*uck you members, I ain't being accountable to no one once I'm in.

Look at the names in that thread..ask them directly...you were voted in by members...why do you now feel you are not accountable to members

Most of you are at uni/college....how many groups are you involved in that offers no accountability on how they perform in your name?????

we had a poll and one of the questions asked was, do you think term limits on admods roles should be in place? not only was the majority of those who voted said yes, bur yes by a very large majority and this isn't the first poll where this was mentioned and voted the same way..accountability of our backroom team is important to avens members

We have an odd situation

we know some admods can't be arsed, don't involve themselves in the community, do not want to be held accountable and do not want the members opinion to matter but at the same time they claim...they know better, you lot are all shite and don't know nothing and no bugger is ever going to hold them accountable.

Ask yourself ...how many of you are happy with an organisation that treats you like kids and says...shhhhh be quiet, we know better than you, now do as your told...and they needed your vote to get there and tell you that?

This isn't a them and us..or least from the members it isn't...but for some in the team it IS them and us and the lack of accountability creates that divide allowing it to expand even further...is that the team you want?..is that the team you voted for?.... when they stood and asked for your vote, would you have voted for them had they said they do not want to be accountable once elected?

So what if I proposed this years ago, so did quite a few others..should your admod team and how aven is run be based on refusing common sense, accountability and making aven better because of who suggested an improvement?

Has it got so bad that aven improving depends on who the admods hate? how on earth is that making things better?

Equality within avens backroom is a must..the admods should be as accountable as any other members in the backroom. A two year term for ALL backroom roles brings in accountability, equality, new blood alongside with old blood and improvements to aven and asexuality

there can be no reason to keep the current system of inequality in aven in 2016.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 03 Jun 2016, 22:07

Mornin

so as a follow up its always worth seeing what follows common sense and equality and those who do not wish either

Ithica..if your still around, happy to hear a different view I know yours differs depending on location :D :D ..I say that because you said

I've always been strongly in favour of transparency, accountability etc etc and still am, but this feels like, overall, the wrong way to go about it. After serving AVEN (hopefully well overall) for a few years, I've taken a few months of break from forum activity.

I think most of us noticed that whilst in the backroom you largely wanted the backroom left alone....then when you left it completely, you were very very vocal on challenging and regularly, the team and many of the thinsg they were doing including the lack of transparency...but now you do not want transparency?...why would that be?...if I've read Michaels announcement correct...then you've just joined avens board.....which would tie in with you being in again and saying visibility, transparency and accountability is no longer important?

Let us know when you leave again so we can work again on the accountability of admods...not saying your fickle...but if you can plan your opinions depending on whether your in out out of the team, it gives the rest of us a chance to know who we are dealing with :roll:

Something that worries me....just those who have declared..not the ones who do not say..but in declared..before the "board" has had any real impact, 40% of the board already have stated accountability, transparency and equality for their admod team is not something they want..40% of the board do not want the 2 year tenure that one of the main board members, uses themselves in the role for the pt....So no equality within the backroom...and no system of accountability...and no transparency....was that worth creating a "board" for?...to send us backwards ?

Ith you also said this Some Admods have devoted many years of their life to helping, and have been through different stages of involvement with the community.

I just want to check..are you saying that the longer you are in the backroom the more you have a right to be non accountable, non involved, non transparent, non equal and above all reasoning of an open and fair organisation?

Whether you are in their 5 minutes or 5 years..the rules should be the same..as it is with members.. but as you have mentioned it...how many of us have seen groups where the longer serving members seek elitism over the newer ones, refuse to be accountable and think they are helping the community by largely ignoring it ?

And for Michael...knowing 40% of your board before it even takes off..does not want to be accountable or transparent to it's members...is not a good start

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 04 Jun 2016, 22:17

So the PT elections..60% of the PT walked out at the same time

the three posts are advertised....from what I can remember, after the asking of nominations are closed, the next section is supposed to include bios

Dedicated Research Contact: Campaign..two people running and only one has put in a bio

Director of Social Media.....Only one person is running, no bio and no reply to questions

Answering Team and Wiki Coordinator.....Only one person is running, no bio and no reply to questions

One person running is not democracy..if they think that then they must be Robert Mugabe's pr men

No bios, and no replies so far...it shouldn't surprise any that the team bend and play with the rules, they rule out the accountability of their own actions all the time themselves by refusing the two year terms. " who do these members think they are, don't they know who WE are?"

Before you vote think on this...you as a member are seen to be trusted enough that your majority vote is worthy to vote someone in...but...within the last few days..the team has decided continual polls where members have asked for admod term limits to ensure accountability and community invovement, are seen as not worthy.

your vote counts to get them in....but your vote does not count enough to vote them out if they are a poor and uninvolved in the community mod

I think it's time for the team to have a reality check....they administer for the members..and not for them to treat you like sheep to be told you know nothing.

The funny thing...they want your vote for the pt vacancies...and the pt DO run the two year term limit and it works well. So why not apply it to themselves?

No reflection on the candidates but honestly, if the members are ever going to get admod accountability, openess and fairness within the backroom..then all members should not vote at all until they install the ability for members votes to count both ways

Campaigns as we know through twitter, facebook, instagram etc etc get results..isn't it time the members said...hey admods...accountability, openness, equality of accountability systems is important to us.....we are going to block the voting process's and not take part till you realise just how important this is to us

Democracy should never be going in just one direction

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » 05 Jun 2016, 02:07

So what do you propose instead?

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » 05 Jun 2016, 02:48

At the momment they have a facade of "we think members are important...we think members votes are important"...but in reality what they actually think is "members votes that make us transparent and accountable are not important"

Personally I'd like a none of the above as a protest vote in these three elections (not to reflect on the candidates but more to protest admod abuse)

If you have a vote in system then you must have a vote out system

Clemy said this Having more elections and getting rid of some that are volunteering their time doesn't seem helpful for the site

The more elections has been shown to be false as the current system has regular elections so there would be little or no difference on the amount. No one has said it has been created to get rid of people as the existing admod can run again at the end of the 2 years if they wish. Let's be honest, some of them have become complacent, rarely involve themselves in their own community and have been in there so long they genuinely think the members are there for them and that they cannot or should not be held accountable or transparent.

What term limits would do is to offer encouragement and appreciation at the end of the two year term for those who understood, involved themselves and valued their role...a admod who cant be arsed just because they think they have been there a long time so don't have to be, should be challenged

No one is asking for all the members to dabble in every decision the team make, they are asking for just one major and important change in the structure of aven which is driven by openess, accountability and equality within the backroom.

Given we now have a board, it would be a shame that one of the first aven votes to be declared since its announcement, is that the the majority of admods do not want to be held accountable under any circumstances and neither do 40% of the new board.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby KAGU143 » 05 Jun 2016, 14:23

PiF, how many clubs have you been involved with that relied on volunteers to work daily for a period of years?

I ask, because I think you are overestimating the willingness of the average person to commit themselves to doing unpaid labor for an extended amount of time. Of course there will be a FEW who are willing to help indefinitely, but they are a very small minority. Most volunteers burn out quickly and lose interest.
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » 05 Jun 2016, 21:12

In AVEN's case I think part of the reason is because many members are at school/uni and when rl starts making demands on their time they leave. Or the toxic 'political' atmosphere is more than they want to put up with.
There are a few long serving admods whose input is spasmodic at best in the 'back room' and non existent on the open board (or in JFF more than admods)
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali


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