Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:21 pm

I started using the 'Nothing is written in stone.' after several maulings for saying 'But that isn't the way it's been done in the past'; I kept being told 'that was then, stop harking back to the past'. They had a point I suppose, while paast decisions weren't exactly protocol they did set a precedent. I just didn't see any point in debating the same points over and over again but I have a low boredom threshold.

There's an obsession with proposing new ideas, as though some want to make their mark on admods but this can cause a backlog of previous proposals...as though new ones displace older ones and so it goes on with very little being achieved or settled. A prime example of the very thing 'Petronius Arbiter' described:

"We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization"

I'm really sorry you're leaving because you're the quality kind of person we need in admods, I'm even more sorry that the other longer serving mods did not step in and try to difuse things. I'm not sure if it would have been better or worse had I still been there - BB seems to think my 'outbursts' had no reasoning behind them :( http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1162 ... 1061155424 though they generally did. If Tea were so upset by Lia's comments, did she contact Lia directly? Did anyone? I'd have thought that should have been the first thing for them to do. It should never have been allowed to deteriorate to that extent. WHY was it left to you to try to sort it out???

Lia was the only one to step in when Ashen attacked me in my resignation thread; for that I will always be grateful. She has always been the most impartial and level headed of the admins; this was the reason I was so surprised at the report thread. It was so out of character, something must have been the reason - but again, that wasn't for YOU but the other admins to sort out. But as usual, they let things escalate and THEN start talking about new procedures to stop it happening again. Treating the symptoms not the root cause.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby ithaca » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:16 am

It's interesting that you bring up the forming-storming-norming-performing model, Tan. I just recently followed a training course for my job and this model was explained, and it shed a huge light on AVEN's structural issues for me (I can go into more details if needed).

I think that every time we have tried to tackle "drama" and "shitstorms" we were trying to address the symptoms and not the actual problem. I am quite sorry to see Steph and other Admods all stressed out by this recent situation (though we've had much, much worse in the past), and I'm honestly looking forward to have the chance to help out, if elected. I have the feeling some in the team think I'm running to set things on fire and make things worse from their point of view, but I'm genuinly not.

Some of the things I've learned recently have been a great help for me at work, and I think could be really useful on AVEN too.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:24 am

I just woke from my beauty sleep and...nope it didn't work...I iz still fugly :D

Steph, you clearly have passion and in a world that is avens backroom I doubt you are the first or will be the last to see what's there, want to change it and then become so angry that rages of frustration will follow

Humans are lazy as a species and that is why we need defining guidelines and for them to be maintained. I once used the car park as an example... allow humans to do what they want to do and it's chaos, they park everwhere at all angles, encroaching on others etc...paint car parking spaces and order is restored...people know what the expectations are, they are all treated equally and it's done in such a way that they do not even think about it as a worry.

Aven has two main issues..one is unavoidable and one is avoidable..the unavoidable it seems, as the forum grows it is moving so far away from asexuality and into a wide ranging social network forum that it is failing in it's original intent and need for asexuals.

This is largely due to so many are of the age group that look for what they are...attach a temporarily vague notion of asexuality and changes are being made to cater for them when the forum was always meant to be for asexuals

The avoidable part is...The backroom as ciri mentions in some way..is now spilling out over the forum to a point it now seems as large a problem than the lack of being a genuine asexual resource....how aven is being run is now is now the biggest problem and a very public noticable one

In regards to you reporting Lia, if you felt it was genuine then it's your right..my issue was having then been voted no action, that the thread should never have been published as it undermined the team and gives people a vision of the madness that is in the goldfish bowl...there are times when a body needs to man up and publish when it has done wrong....this wasn't one of them.

My sword comment..in many ways it would seem whilst appearing to be at two different ends..both you and lia have the same strength of character to want a change...so perhaps there is more common ground there for change than some realised?

As to declass... all this started due to two reasonable questions... some tos has gone missing..and ...as it was in your tos why is it not being done, the questions still remain lost in the drama that followed

I know rather than make change better for asexuality, aven, the members and the backroom.... avens backroom will not or cannot change. I've often been angry at them for this and have sufferred abuse, warnings and totally created bannings but still I hold on that one day they will see it does need to change and it's on this I've used the anology they are like a oil tanker rather than a power boat...they take ages to turn onto the right course however without a captian at the helm it seems no one is able to get any course at all whilst it still travels forward towards the rapids

It's refreshing and then also frustrating to see new blood come in..those who have been selected by the membership and in recent times..to come in and have all their hopes dashed when they see the mess there is in there...and sometimes with so little experience of aven and therefore the backroom...their expectations are unrealistic within the time frame they wish..most of this i feel is due to mod selection where people are being voted in far to early..personally i now feel the term to run for mod should be raised to 12 months membership before being eleigible as this would give people the time to accrue knowledge and decide if it really is for them knowing better of its limitations

So at the momment...you have youth, enthusiastic, idealistic but little experienced newer mods .. working with longer term experienced but somewhat complacemant mods...however the skills are there to make it work by pulling the positives from both but it must be done in a way that respects there will never ever be a win win for everyone but it can be far better...it needs to be far better than it is.

Tan you right of course BB should know better..freed from the shackles of colour some ex mods offer a realism they couldn't have before mixed with the "now a member" approach..often those insecure and afraid for change ..attack those who suggest it..and yet the change being asked? the change being asked is ? to make the backroom a simpler and less stressfull place to offer a consistent direction whilst remaining accountable and in touch with it's members...the people that voted them in...it couldn't be much simpler

So why is it struggling? Aven is far far away in the wrong direction of asexuality that it started out from, this has led to many with vested interests that have nothing to do with asexuality at all, being in the forum demanding things that require things that are aided better by other forums..rather than be honest and state our mission statement of some kind, we have added and added non relative forums...They have tried to be all things to all men whilst failing the group they are supposed to be there for

This lack of forward thinking is reflected in it's approach to how the forum is run... a tremendous lack of direction has led to a sticking plaster approach of more and more rules to cover up rather than address issues .

I can prattle on and on but the key points keep coming up, recognised by many but never changed so encouraging this circle of confusion and pain..and it needs to change if we are ever to move forward

My suggestion is start with now, then look at the future..change for changes sake never works . In the declass situation is an easy fix to stop this mess .... all before this date will no longer be declasified..then end only exception from this point is when the individual directly involves requests them.

That's it and removes the huge backlog of the past and ensure it will never happen again and replaces it with a system that is sustainable and removes shedloads of work and stress from the mods

that only cures the current fight..what the backroom needs to do for itself is to find a way that fights are a rarity and not an everyday event...and until they combine their talents..and there is some there..then they will still be in the groundhog day of dreading signing in

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:59 am

I attended many management training courses during my time in the Civil Service including a thing called 'Total Quality Management' but I can't say any of them ever helped in admods :lol:

PiF - on the one hand you want declassification, you asked for your own Warn/Ban thread be declassified and yet you say the one concerning Lia should not have been? Inconsistency is not one of your faults normally :P Or is the complaint it was declass out of order :D
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:47 am

I agree on those courses Tan, i remember one of the buzz words they wanted us to start using on one where they said..."I'll take that on board"..when asked would I use it I replied, No...I'm not a sailor and don't own a boat.

Re your declass questions..perfectly reasonable to ask...I had asked for my last warning that led to my perma ban to be declassified as the rules allowed me to do so but it became quite clear quite quickly based on replies then no replies at all from the backroom... that this was never going to happen and they would adopt the usual stalling long enough till it goes away mantra/technique that they are now famous for and many more in public are seeing

It then within the tos removal debacle became quite clear some were dealing with a dodgy deck and some of the genuine well meaning mods were getting caught in the crossfire and they did not deserve that...so from my point, my individual declass request was not as important as the whole declass debate so I would surrender that request in the hope IF they found a way forward,to be still accountable but also reducing mod workload..as much as I am angry with the collective...the good ones have enough to deal with and to that end my wish as an individual did not seem as important

The out of order timeline ...despite assurances that all declasses would be from oldest first and that is why my declass would take a long time..i estimate 2 years if ever..then lia's case showed simply..they lied

Depending on the person involved (you may over the years seen me say this :lol: ) they can if they want to, break their own rules depending on the person involved..this again highlighted breaches of their own protocol and a blanket disregard of the very rules they ask us to respect whilst at the same time asking members to abide by... members get warnings and bans for breaking the rules, the backroom get...to do it again and again

As to lias being published..lia mentioned she had wished for it to be public..I respect that was the right thing for her...however..this tactic is a bad one..my feeling is and as stated, that if that person is serving in the backroom then the threads such as that one..which was decided as a no action...should remain classified until..that person steps down or is removed

We saw with arca..is she still around?...that declassed thread about her running for pt was unpleasant to read....this was then made avaliable to all members whilst she was still in the pt..two things from this..suddenly she will see people she had been working with in the backroom may have not been as one faced as she thought so creating a very unpleasant envioroment to work in...and two COULD be used to shame and embarrass a member of the backroom to a point that they leave..effectively a constructive dismissal

There is also a security risk to publishing declass whilst a member is in the team also, they still have access to it and its secrets...it could piss them off and shame them enough they feel so angry with the team they start copying, taking backroom threads away from the backroom onto their own hard drives to reveal later...we both now this has happened

So my wish is for things to get better back there, If i turn out to be a necessary cost of that being achieved then I have no issue with that..as to being consistent my wishes are still the same..bring aven back to being an asexual resource and the backroom to be the best it can be..we are a long way off on both

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:11 am

Surely you aren't suggesting that reports threads should not be declassified until all involved have left AVEN?
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:34 am

If I read that right and using Lia's recent as an example

Had Lia been found to have broken the tos then of course a warn would have meant removal from mods..only when she had been removed should that thread be eligible for declass

However..there is a case to discuss in such an event, for future application of those rules and I'm not sure if this has taken place or is in place?

if it were a member banned (I truly feel a warn that leads to ban is the only time a declass should be avaliable to a member) then they and only they could request a declass

if however a backroom member were issued a warning which in turn would lead to them being removed as a mod... then there needs to be discussed ... wether that falls into member declass or an official declass..personally I would hope it would be as a member declass as being removed from the backroom could be upsetting enough without the public humiliation also.....the choice to declass I feel should be the option of the official removed but ...there may be circumstances that the team feel it needs to be public but again only after that member has left the team...I'm not sure if this point has been discussed and set in place because it should be as inevitably it will happen again someday

if a review found no case to answer in the circumstance of possibly removing a mod then I would not be in favour of declassing that thread

or if I read your question wrong..then you were asking something like..15 mods make a decision about 1 mod..the mod is removed..does the declass have to wait till all the mods have left...the answer would be no..just the 1 one who has been removed

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby KAGU143 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:02 am

Poor AVEN. :(
Several things are working against them all at once.

Just for the record, though, I don't have too many issues with their treatment of asexuality overall.
Of COURSE there are lots of young people who are new to exploring their sexuality and who decide to try on asexuality to see if it fits. Maybe they're real asexuals, maybe they aren't. So what? They NEED to have a place like AVEN and I think it would be ... well, not just wrong, but HORRIBLY wrong to make them feel unwelcome and to tell them that they can't be in the club because they're probably going to feel differently in a short time.
I flatly refuse to see any sort of agenda or ulterior motive in AVEN's ready acceptance of the "questioning" crowd.
I also don't see any problem with all of the hair-splitting labels which are being included in asexuality. Believe it or not, they don't detract from the basic definition of asexuality - no more than terms like "bears" and "twinks" detract from the basic definition of homosexuality.

Where AVEN DOES have a problem is in its organizational structure, and I very sincerely believe that they brought it on themselves when:

1) Most important: DJ quit being the leader but refused to let anybody else do it, and:
2) They decided to choose admods via popular election rather than by appointment.

It was a bad idea; it's STILL a bad idea, but now that they've opened Pandora's box there's no way for them to close it.
The majority of their members are at the age where they absolutely MUST question authority and, unfortunately, that means that they're often not very well qualified to wield it. (There are exceptions, of course, but I'm speaking statistically for now.)
I'm not saying that they don't mean well - I'm sure they genuinely do - but being in charge means that you sometimes have to value your responsibilities more than your friendships. Making that choice is always painful, but for those who have no support group other than their peers it's essentially impossible.
Not only that.
A lot of people, especially young people, believe that it's morally RIGHT to choose friendship over responsibility - and maybe in some situations it really IS the right choice for teens and young adults, but it means that factions and cliques are doomed to develop over and over. When those same people are chosen based on their popularity, and then placed in a position of authority, it's just a matter of time before conflicts arise.

It looks like the same pattern that existed when Kæth and I gave up and left AVEN is continuing to this day.
We learned some very painful lessons from it, and hopefully *fingers crossed* we'll be able to prevent the same thing from happening here.
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:16 am

I had to look up bears and twinks??? ...I've never seen so many search results mentioning gay porn films!! 8| 8|

I have no problem in people searching, looking etc and the forums are the only place for that ,..however..my issue is as I've said..temporary asexuals by numbers are determining the direction of asexuality with consequences none of them will face as they return to sexuality..it's important to be there for them but..we need the balance to be more for asexualities long term integrity...the lgbt fight for gay rights whilst welcoming straight people but their drive and bias is and has always been lgbt

as to aven....I can't see much I would disagree with in your assessment Nancy except one part...I do feel they can shut the lid on that pesky pandora but it would require a strong sense of purpose and determination to do so...I don't think at the momment they have that as they would spend months debating, getting angry only to then ignore it all again..they have many years history of doing this as we know

A compromise on mod selection might be...."we have a vacancy, those wishing to to be considered put your name forward with a small bio and send it to"... then either identify an admin or the mods contact email... then from that selection the team choose best fit...it still has shortfalls as the gene pool will still be largely 16-24 as the forum is largely 16-24 but even within that age group there are some real stars..but so they know what they are getting into I feel the qualification period should be raised from 6 months to 12 months..it removes the popularity contest elections have always been.

As to apositive I think the format it has is what makes it work...if it ever starts to go down the sub forum of a sub forum of something that has nothing to do with asexuality..well we've seen where that slope took people with aven..for now Nancy I think you and Kæth have got it right here in how this place runs and I greatly appreciate it :D

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:50 am

I been thinking on your comments a bit more Nancy and I'd like to focus on one or two points..before I do however i intend to add a caveat...this is my own personal opinion and is aimed at the collective and not at any individual..i say this as often (don't i know it with my warnings :D :P ) often context in words and written text can be interpretated differently...it will be long winded but with a summary for those lacking patience :lol:

I have been saying for years aven was moving away from it's intent to be a valuable resources primarily for asexuals that also allowed those with questions/support needs and the ability to find out what next in regards to asexuality....but balance is the key here

Instead, avens great and the good wanted to take us more down the mass visibility route of adopting the lgbt association and every other possible variant of sexuality they could find... we lack sexual attraction..not orientation

As the forum moved away from core asexuality, it openly encouraged the group in it's discovery phase..the group you mention Nancy..the group we have all been at some stage... that in turn turned aven from a non age specific group forum for asexuality..into a social network forum for sexuals that not only questions asexuality but on a daily basis wants to rip up our definition many times over

Now why is this relevant, if you as a group that control the direction ..allow it's core to change from across the ages defined asexual forum into a forum that is widely recognised as a kiddy forum, one that on every level is making that forum about everything but asexuality.... then it creates chaos.

If you fill it with teens/early adults who by their very nature want to challenge authority, knowledge,with swords of opinion/very little experience and will seek to see where the defining message is..then rip it apart not for the groups benefit but for that individuals benefit ..then you can understand what is happening

This level of choas is entirely at the door of avens owner and those that run aven..and should anyone say hey this aint right....you turn on them accusing them of being old, unwilling to change, stuck in the past and elitists

now..my opinion is well known..you have sold out asexuals integrity for the sake of faux asexual numbers for nothing other than fake visibility

So why is this relevant?...if you actively promote your forum for a group that is largely the age group we have that will argue, confront the established way of doing things etc...why are you now suprised when that same gene pool that is the majority..provides you with new mods who will challenge the established ways, the definition, how things are done but without the experience of life and compromise etc?

What it seems to say is...the choas we have actively promoted in the front room ..we do not want in the backroom as we operate a double standard

from this side I would say..welcome to what you have foisted onto the long term asexuals and now you have a taste of your own medicine

Your choice of candidates for the backroom should be representitive of the forum and in that case it is not...but rather than accept the change they created is impacting on people is a problem, they turn a blind eye as it doesn't effect them back there but..now it is I'm reminded of an old quote ..let them who sow the seed reap the tempest

Most mods are ...i'm happy to be corrected here..are over 24 but the forum they lord over is largely under 24..given they have largely driven away older asexuals by the direction...I'm not sure where they thought the new mods would come from?

this is a group who have angst with authority so some will go into the backroom all guns blazing..and this is why i feel now as the forum becomes even more teen than adult...we need to ask those who want to run to say yes please..then the mods choose the best fit....also they need to recognise that the age group they have foisted upon us is young and unexperienced but, trying to make things better..and when they don't get their own way they do see the backroom as old, unwilling to change, stuck in the past and elitists

But there is another point of note..go back through avens history books and it is littered with acknowledgemnts that how the team operates needs to change but over the last decade operationally back there very little has leading to going around in circles...Tan given bb decided to mention you directly because you pointed out it's a mess then perhaps she needed a reminder of her own stance... http://www.examiner.com/article/several ... ors-resign http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/7752 ... grapevine/

The main group is young, idelalistic, opiniated, lacking experience in life and compromise but has passion so it should be no suprise that from time to time you have mods that need to have the benefits they offer.. need to be mentored.. quick note that popped into my noggin..are new mods on a trial basis and are they allocated one or more if any, mentors ?

So to the summary

You had a boutique food store where all your customers were informed and on message because they had a personal investment....you then tore down that store and built a supermarket and now your customers are not as they were so you have lost the "we" and it has been replaced with the "me" and from the me's, some want to be part of the management using a supermarket style

This is the reality of the forum you have created and the group you have promoted as the largest group..how it works now largely depends on you back there but make no bones about it...what you are getting is very much of your own creation

So what now? well like an alcoholic, the first step of any route to betterment is first admitting you have a problem and that is it self inflicted and you, and only you (metaphorically speaking in this case) can make things better

The issues are well documented wether you agree or not with them depends if your head is on your shoulders or up your arse...is aven salvigible?

I think yes, not as it used to be, it's too far gone for that...but we do need to find a way...organisationally at least..to make it simpler to run, improve team cohesion whilst reducing unecessary workload and also I feel..review how mods are picked. With any expanding organisation, the successfull ones are the ones that manage to work to a simple logic

Where asexuality is going is a different debate to how the organisation works and works better it does need to do.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:31 am

Well, at least the admods chose their new admin wisely - who'd a thunk it ;)

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/1172 ... nistrator/
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 am

Even though LG is considered a friend...I still feel she is one of the better backroom team as she is active within the board, understands both sides and can see a way to improve. They have made a good choice.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:38 am

I've said it so often I'm boring...she's the best Welcome mod they've ever had. I think she's said 'Hi' to every newby who's posted on AVEN since she became mod.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:55 am

The obvious question now follows..as she has gone red..who will take over that green role as they will have a hard act to follow

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Lia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:15 am

LG modded 3 forums: Welcome, SPFA and Census. We'll see who shuffles into what and take elections from there :) I think LG is going to try to continue her welcoming newbies as an Admin :)

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Ciri » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:43 am

Could have been worse.
You're all dead and I'm your eternal punishment.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:38 pm

She gets around of applause from me!
That level of involvement takes a lot of time and dedication.
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Ciri » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:53 am

I give Arche 2 months, tops.
You're all dead and I'm your eternal punishment.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:46 am

I say 5 months :lol: :lol: ..ith a little bit longer..she be power mad so will want to go red again :lol: :lol: :lol: hiya ith :D :halo: :whistle:

but...lets guess what the next reason is going to be to leave again

I have a theory...most of them are related and they go in and out of the backroom because they are playin a mixture of musical chairs and groundhog day

Orrrrr it's a relay race and they are a team of multiple individuals who keep going in and out the team depending on who has the baton :P

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Ciri » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:50 am

Haha has he made the record for most times in/out?

I personally think they're all the same person with multiple personalities.
You're all dead and I'm your eternal punishment.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:39 pm

OOO like Alec Guinness in Kind Hearts and coronets?

Alec Guinness eight plays roles
1. Duke Etherel
2. The Banker
3. Reverend Lord Henry d'Ascoyne
4. General Lord Rufus D'Ascoyne
5. Admiral Horatio d'Ascoyne
6. Young Henry d'Ascoyne
7. Lady Agatha d'Ascoyne
8. Lord Ascoyne d'Ascoyne

Actually it might explain quite a bit :lol:

as to arch ..I think he's been in and out more than a porn star :clap:

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:05 am

We were evens until this time - and as I keep pointing out, my in/out was over ten years :P . I'm not saying I'd NEVER try to get back in but at the moment I don't have that irrestible need to know what's going on in the back room that's always forced me back in before. There are a couple I couldn't work with, so it's unlikely I'd try anyway. But then, nothing to say I'd be voted back in, is there?
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:55 am

I was going to mention Tan that like arche..you seem to be on a bungy cord of in and out :lol: but I am trying a new be nice style, is it working yet ? :D

As to some you couldn't work with? Tan you know there are some back there who would rather knife me than talk to me and I in return would not have them on my christmas card list...but I still offer to help them sort the ever increasing circle of chaos and lack of forward planning they create...if we only worked with people we liked..most companies would only have 5 people in it :D ..

I never say never on most things and would not rule out helping them..in a organisational role but not in the forum kind of way...my ideal way would be behind the scenes help..and in the forum, (h)aven posts only..so to you tan perhaps the next bit might be a good compromise?

Perhaps..if they continue with this silly... you must read every post and attend every day...then as part of the review which they keep refusing to do but desperatly need..they should advertise roles as part time? or two mods for the same group of forums..this would see an expansion of mods.... however would take off a hell of a lot of stress and work from people who are...volunteers.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:40 am

Differenc is PiF, at work (where I'm PAID to turn up) I get along with most and can tolerate the rest (well, most of the time anyway :D ) I turn up, do my job and go home. I'm generally treated with respect, if anyone did say I was wrong or stupid for thinking something I could either challenge or just shrug it off and think 'plonker'. The funny thing is - even though I'm paid, no-one bangs on about being 'professional' in my approach :P
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:55 am

The internet, creating crazys one day at a time

I get what you say Tan. When you overdose on democracy then you analyze every last thing..On the net I've done it myself and this is why aven needs a 2.0

we need to segregate it has two functions ..one is visibility, it does that at the expense of real asexuals..but the other is organisational, the ability to run a forum..any forum largely should be the same..you are supposed to be enablers but for two many back there they have become so engrossed and addicted to it...they can't leave it alone and for many it is their real life

What that often means is everything is personal as they have very little going on in the real world so it almost becomes a full time job and the centre of thier life...it's an internet forum and nothing more.

look at the declasses and you see how it impacts, college, personal life, health, work etc and because they have become so addicted to the message that is all there is for them and so when the inevitable forum battles happen...they are unable to detach themselves and often make decisions based on personal rather than forum standards

The burn out is high because the way they work and how they work in the backroom..they don't need to work harder...they just need some common sense to reduce the life sucking way they work and get some life back by working smarter.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:17 am

It's OK PiF, Ithaca ha been on management courses so will get things organised. Sounds like they're the same ones I went on - my sons used to hate it...I remember one and I came home trying to introduce some of the techniques...Iain said to John 'Oh god, she's been on another course' to which John's response was 'Don't worry about it - give it a week or so and things will go back to normal'
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:44 am

Tanwen wrote:It's OK PiF, Ithaca ha been on management courses so will get things organised. Sounds like they're the same ones I went on
...which is what's needed if they are to future proof aven legally and get the best from people whilst at the same time protecting those "volunteers" who work in the backroom and their well being

Tanwen wrote:'Don't worry about it - give it a week or so and things will go back to normal'
...which has been and continues to be, avens backroom mantra

Here is the thing..to people like us tan the forum is important but it is only a forum...to many coming through particulary the younglings..the internet is real and the consequences are real and the terms "fair" and "human rights" are creeping from reality into internet reality on a daily basis. Aven has a long and documented history of high burn out of volunteers and has done little to correct it, in many cases they fight the very things that could make it safer and less of an impact on the individuals who volunteer.

I suspect in my lifetime, given the impact forums now have...I foresee ambulance chasing lawyers targeting forums and their owners when an individual believes their state of mind/emotional well being.. has been affected by a forum and how they operate regarding mods/admins etc basically all it's volunteers. They will not be able to sue individual members but can and I suspect will, target the officials and owners of those sites with a view for compensation.

In those cases...they will have had to meet certain requirements to defend their case, best practice if you will and to find that best practice and if it exists they will be asked.... Did you know there were issues? did you see a high turn over of people being affected by how you operated? what did you do to correct that? what after care support did you offer to those worse effected? What proceedures did you put in place to reduce the chances of further cases? Are you aware you have a duty of care to those volunteers?

Given this forum is are many, are based in America..you can see this as a reality..even more so in places like aven where the largest groups of forum users are in the emotionally charged age.

If they want to refuse future proofing themselves to be safe legally and to improve things for the volunteers..that wouldn't surprise me if they did....but as I said, suing internet forums will be the next big legal arena for the opportunist lawyers and aven would do wise to protect itself in advance..rather than the current system of sticking their heads up their arse and hoping it all goes away.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:26 pm

The rate of burn out has as much to do with the back room itself as the amount of work involved. Given the international nature of the site I doubt that legal action could be taken - the server is situated in the US - how would anyone outside the US sue anyone???Even each state has it's own laws - absolute nightmare!

There was a time when AVEN was my world - all my friends were there, I sat up all hours talking to people - now it's all connected with the dogs. At least now I see people and get out for a bit of exercise :)
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:52 pm

Interestingly today as we see..to releive stress..they announced more mod roles to widen the load so to speak

there are currently:
- 5 Admin
- 5 Project Team Members
- 12 Moderators

With these four elections, we will be adding an additional 4 moderators for a total of 16 Mods, 26 Admods/PT in total.


Glad to see they are starting to follow my suggestions :D

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 pm

Not just yours PiF, I fought hard to argue the case against reducing the number of mods the last couple of 'purges' but I was obviously outvoted :P :D

What could be a problem though is that it might take longer to reach any kind of decision and the possibility of conflict greater the more the circle expands.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali