Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

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PiF
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Tue May 17, 2016 7:32 am

They replaced it with the LFiU principle...I'll let you guess what that means :D

As a team they have rather gotten themselves in a pickle and some have rather backed themselves into a corner.

Some have no interest in aven other than a title or not wanting anyone else to have what they have , certianly i would include dj, smg. amcam, kelly etc etc

then you have some that are so jazzed up that they come across the above^^^ and a war starts because perhaps they need to learn a different way of doing it to achieve the end goal ( I know, coming from me :lol: ) Then there are those in the middle who want improvents where there are some benificial to be had but without the infighting of the non inputers starting a war or simply stonewalling it.

Much of aven is whitenoise...the same questions week after week as the temporary asexual of some kind pass through every month but look again at the heavy posters..regular posters and these often are asking...lets be clear on what asexuality is and what it isn't...lets see a positive way to promote it and lets make aven as good as it can be to achieve those aims.

For far too many in the backroom their stance is..."absolutely NO...what was the question again?"....and from that, how can you move forward when some want to do nothing other than step back in time?

Just as an aside, anyone else notice how often aven gets sql errors when site comments is discussing changing the mod structure?

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Tue May 17, 2016 11:47 pm

Just as an aside, anyone else notice how often aven gets sql errors when site comments is discussing changing the mod structure?


Pure coincidence PiF. I'm pretty sure admins can't do it and if they could Coles would jump on them from a very great height for messing aboout with things :D

I'm not going into the thread about why some things are implemented etc very often - raises my blood pressure to 'normal' normal rather than my low normal - I know I'm not, but I feel I'm being needled by a certain member (not an admod) - put it down to post op sensitivity :(
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Wed May 18, 2016 1:47 am

:lol: you have a pm

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Wed May 18, 2016 1:54 pm

when aven was started it was supposed to be not a safe place, there are none on the internet,,,but a place were genuine asexuals, their partners,family and friends could come to to see what asexuality was about

it was supposed to be the first port of call for researchers and a real starting point for the visibility by asexuals for asexuals and to invite others but most of all show we are people, the same as everyone else except one very small but important difference

Now, aven has more walls than ever around it blocking more people from seeing information and understanding asexuality, it has more rules to suppress, warn and ban it's OWN members than ever before, it locks more threads than ever before to shut people down who question this bad and inclusive direction aven has taken

it turns away good people rather than admit they have gotten it wrong, it has become a small inward and backward looking forum that has little to do with asexuality anymore..an ignorant bullying and backward island when it should be a f*cking continent promoting asexual visibility

If you have a governing body in college, uni, groups, hell even government..you know if you elect them in and they fail to make things better... then at a set time they can be removed because that is what democracy is..and a body that has no accountability, is no democracy at all...and that is what aven has become.

it has become a small group of people who are a power unto themselves who point blank refuse accountability, who say democracy is great when they are voted in but you the voters are so stupid that they know better than you the minute the walk through those backroom doors

it is a forum that allows those that run it to say " I don't agree with he decision of the backroom but I have to go with the majority"...whilst at the same time, multiple polls by the members who gain a large majority vote, are ignored under the pretence they know better than you...majority votes allowed for them..member majority votes ignored and refused

That isn't why aven was created, that isn't going to see asexuality promoted , that isn't just isn't, the place it should be..and people should stand up and say...without accountability, avens backroom is refusing democracy..it's refusing accountability...it's not the aven I signed up for

Aven deserves better, asexuals deserve better and our future ability to promote who and what we are, deserves better.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SkyWorld » Wed May 18, 2016 7:35 pm

Tanwen wrote:
Just as an aside, anyone else notice how often aven gets sql errors when site comments is discussing changing the mod structure?


Pure coincidence PiF. I'm pretty sure admins can't do it and if they could Coles would jump on them from a very great height for messing aboout with things :D


Really, I thought that AVEN gets SQL errors every time there's an election and even suspected that AVEN must really hate the democratic process. ;)

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Wed May 18, 2016 11:38 pm

I'm sure it is just a coincidence, probably brought on by such things as

Some mods want to wall aven in from the outside world?.... no sql's

someone running in a mod election we don't like and we can't sabotage them?..the site goes down for a week :lol:

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Thu May 19, 2016 12:09 am

And they already start off with a 'handicap' of at least 15 votes against :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Ciri » Thu May 19, 2016 12:47 am

Looks like a load of them agree with fixed terms. In the biweekly bulletin it says they're discussing trialing it.

Anyway, I have that operation I've been waiting for on Saturday. I'm scared they're going to mix up my notes and I'll come out with a penis. :|
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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Thu May 19, 2016 1:14 am

Unfortunately, if certain 'key' admods are against it (and they are), it will never happen.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Thu May 19, 2016 2:43 am

They don't need to trial it, the trail has been going on for years, it is called the pt

Ciri..as long as they don't attach it on your forehead, you'll be okay :D good luck

Tan..I'm not so sure, it seems there is a clear momentum as people are seeing what is being asked for is perfectly reasonable and if we are honest, should have been in place a long time ago...yeah the same half dozen do not want to be accountable and will block any attempt but....they will block anything they want rather than be honest and say...you know what, who I am now isn't the person who first joined the team with positives but now I am little more than a sitting duck who does not want to involve themselves with the community.

I think given aven is mostly students...they know from campus's...you cannot have elected officials without accountability..even more so when some of those elected simply do not communicate or even interact with the community...who in their right fair mind would say..do what you want and don't be accountable in a position of authority??

so far the only reason offered that cannot be shown as incorrect is...some simply do not want to be accountable or involved..I get that, but honestly when you have people who refuse accountability and they are the same people holding members to BE accountable, is seems an oxymoron and quite unfair...in this respect, they are behaving like naughty school kids shouting at their parents saying they do not want to do something.

Anyway..like I said, the two year terms will come in..I just feel it would be better if the admods understand, how it comes in can either see more of "them and us"...or the team being part of the community and leading from the front giving back the integrity and trust that the admods see why accountability is important for those that police us.

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Thu May 19, 2016 5:01 am

Only the admods can introduce two year terms and, as a fair proportion are adamantly against it, it wont happen. Some even threw teddy out of the pram when it was suggested they should do declassifications and introduced the Declass Team, who are working hard to fulfil their brief.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Thu May 19, 2016 6:13 am

It would seem some in there are following dj's lead, they do not want to do anything themselves/be community involved or even be accountable...but they also do not want anyone else having a go either.

honestly..who could find a situation were you have elected officials..that do not have to be accountable or have any stimulation to involve themselves with the community that voted them in? and they honestly cannot see this and why it keeps getting member polls saying...term limits please?

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri May 20, 2016 2:05 am

What is the difference between Hilary's emails and the aven 2015 census? ....Your more likely to see Hilary's emails :D

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri May 27, 2016 8:40 am

So. still no 2015 census, still no Michaels big announcement and 60% of the pt posts are up for election. Unlikely to be the two year tenure running out on 3 of them at the same time

Add to that hardly any admods are getting involved in the community that voted them in and some of the team who were great, lovely and always active friendly people before they went into the backroom have now become invisible, almost no admods at all involving themselves within their community, something feels a foot

I've never felt the saying "the captian should go down with the ship"...to be a good one. Fighting with those who offer lifebelts seems the thinking of mad men

A good captian see's what the issues are, involves others and makes more people want to be part of the crew by seeing what needs to be done to make it better and getting on with it so the ship does not sink at all

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Fri May 27, 2016 12:27 pm

If the PT were having difficulties interpreting the data; the fact that they've lost two wont help matters at all.

Yes, the 'imminent announcement' isn't, is it?
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Fri May 27, 2016 1:04 pm

3 posts out of the 5 have gone up Tan, that is a big hit on the pt

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Lia
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Lia » Fri May 27, 2016 4:20 pm

As far as the term limit vs stepping down goes:
Cosine has posted a thread in Site Comments announcing her stepping down from the PT.
Steph joined the PT in June 2015, which tells me she has also stepped down.
LPP looks to have joined the PT in Dec 2014, which tells me, too, that they have stepped down.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sat May 28, 2016 1:51 am

I did think it was that way Lia but it's always good to know, thank you

For me The Pt's shortfal was always and remains, the inability to feed inward what it was doing outward, which is a shame as often the stuff I hear when they do get involved outward is worth looking at.

Beyond that part, for whatever reason they have stepped down ....I hope they are all ok.....and for what ever reason/s they have stepped down I hope they are listened to and rectified

Almost anyone can be a mod/admin...specialist roles like the pt are not so easy to replace, even more so when 60% of your pt staff walk out

There is becoming an ever increasing inability by the team to listen, even to their own team members.

Look at aven now alledegdly nearly 83,000 members but more than ever before, the regular posters are largely leaving aven, with the remainder being 6 month "spectrum sexuals"....the amount of people long term are going down, sometimes you look in there and wonder apart from the repeat am I asexual, very little is going on

I don't say this to pour scorn but more to those who are allowing this to ask them...wtf are you doing and truly you cannot be so blind that you cannot see what is happening???

How much longer can avens backroom stick their fingers in thier ears singing lala I ain't listening?...the forum is going down hill, you can't get mods, 60% of your visibility body have walked out, you ignore members continual request for term times and still everything it just great?

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Sat May 28, 2016 8:43 am

That certainly puts a different slant on things. You really do have to wonder what the dickens is going on.

*Think I'd better stay out of it for a couple of days now*
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sat May 28, 2016 11:12 am

I see that the latest wall to go up is on "site comments" and not just so you can't see what is in it but now it's hidden completely from non members

Some may remember I said the one or two they were doing will continue and continue to remove visibility from a visibility forum and these trump walls to keep muggles out would only be the begining and not for the first time, what I say will happen, has.

The usual safety blah blah blah excuse again but beyond one or two who comment on aven, it didn't effect the site safety at all

I'm not sure how many parts of the forum will have the trump walls go up so those looking to find out about asexuality can scan and perouse before they join will no longer be able to see anything about asexuality...is going to be acceptable to the members? It was supposed to let the world see what asexuality is, not put barriers up for a select few, and people call me elitist!!!

since when has Aven allowed itself to be turned into a gated community for the elite whilst keeping the common people out???

The way it is going, we have had a third of aven almost within the last3 -4 months..closed from public view and that is on top of those that were also closed, before members say..hey this visibility forum should be visibile...most of us joined AFTER perousing the sight for quiet some time before I joined, why are you stopping others from seeing what and who we are?

Because I have just mentioned about 60% of the pt have stepped down and now there are elections to fill...I suspect the site info and announcements sections will be the next ones to have the trump wall around them

if you were at college..and the body that represents you has no system of accountability, no ability to remove poor performing and non commmunity involved elected members and then when you start to notice what they are upto, they start to hide large parts of what they do in your name to make your club elitist....how would you feel about that organisation?

again I ask..... since when has Aven allowed itself to be turned into a gated community for the elite whilst keeping the common people out???

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun May 29, 2016 1:43 am

Well at least site comments is back although it did prove 2 points

I remember it being said when we discussed the two year term limit that losing someone after 2 years (which wasn't the case as they would be allowed to run again so they have an equal chance as anyone else to get in the backroom) It was said to lose that experience would be a loss. Well tea has been a mod since oct 2011 and an admid since oct 2012.

Clearly being in there longer doesn't guaranty a whole forum can't go missing when that person has access to the shiney buttons and two, if the much lauded mentor programme had actually been working, then others would have been able to return it and not wait for just one person

So todays songs from the big chair, aven (tea) has announced 3 new vis/ed forums and yup you guessed....none of them are able to be visible or to educate those who have yet to join. It's a bit like someone announcing something then being asked what's in it and being told...we aint' telling you or showing you?

Under those clarifications I can only assume that their visibility is set at Stevie Wonder level and how are you going to be educated about asexuality when the books are written in invisible ink.....I do wonder if there is a school for labotomies when they go in there and come out with this rubbish

visibility you can't see and education now one can see either....you'd never gues aven is a visibility and education site by these new launches

The other thing even more important...these are visibility projects being launched at a time 60% of the project team have walked out..how does that work? I do wonder if these new fora's being forced into operation and apparently onto the pt had anything to do with a sudden walk out?

So far of the three vacancies, only one person who has shown an enquiry and they have said they do not want to be visible themselves????

So 3 new forums no one asked for....all again have the trump wall around them despite claiming to be about visibility and education..... and no one to run them as 60% of the project team have left en masse

at what point does aven's backroom live in the real world that the rest of us live in?

You get very little positive education and visibility..from a gated community with walls up

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Tanwen
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Sun May 29, 2016 3:44 am

To be fair, I think the reason the new fora aren't visible yet is because the posts which are intended to oversee them are vacant - although the usual procedure is for the outgoing mod to stay until the new one is voted in, if they need to go immediately they can. I did - too much hassle over my resignation thread and being called a liar by more than one was more than I could take.

So, I suppose we should wait until the dust settles; the new mods in place and have had a chance to get up to speed. :)
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun May 29, 2016 5:13 am

Was it me

My first challenge would to find out why 60% of my project team walked out then try to find a way to either bring them back on board by listening and changing....or at the very least do what ever I can to make sure it doesn't happen again

I fail to see how increasing the workload by three fora..that no one has asked for....by increasing the workload for new candidates before they have even applied, let alone started..was considered a good move?

These fora should not have been created....ideally if..and lets be honest it's a big effin IF...if they get the three vacancies filled..then those three newbie pt members should have been allowed to find their feet and get upto speed first....then the pt asked about how they feel about them

a point to ponder

for anyone wishing to join the pt...they are seeing that the admods are forcing work on to the pt when the pt was supposed to be independent of the admods....so I wonder just how many people will want to run knowing the impartiality and independence of the project team, is being undermined and taken away by the admods

At lets be honest..when it comes to forward planning.....avens admods are still well known for adopting the.... "What F*cking iceberg" approach that the Titanic captain thought was ok.

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby KAGU143 » Sun May 29, 2016 5:19 am

I think so too, Tan. Benefit of the doubt, and all that . . .
I'm not going to climb aboard the "everything that AVEN does is always wrong" train.

While I strongly disagree with many of their methods, I don't think that their intentions are bad.
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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Lia » Sun May 29, 2016 5:27 am

To be fair to Tea, while I have my own gripes about her both personally and professionally, setting up a forum in the ACP is tricky, and it's not done very often. So while it's very easy for an outsider to say "well she's been an Admin longer than I've been on AVEN she should know how to do it!", it's more complicated than that (in this instance). I always had to double check with someone when setting up a forum (mostly the WW or Census archives, but even then it was easier because you could just copy the permissions from the previous year... These were completely new forums with permissions designed to NOT follow the usual ones.).

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun May 29, 2016 5:35 am

I think Lia this shows the weak point I've mentioned before about planning and mentoring.

An ideal way would have been that all admins who are the shiney button pushers, were of all the same technical ability so there would be a support structure within those 5, at the momment it seems even amongst those 5 the skill set is not uptodate or shared

if however you have doubts then simply a chat with Cole and say hey, I'm thinking of implementing this...have you got some time we can be on aven at the same time so if there is an issue it can be resolved asap?....this is basic 101

again..planning..something the team have always been shit at

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » Sun May 29, 2016 1:44 pm

So will the new forums also need extra mods or PT? :P

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby Tanwen » Sun May 29, 2016 2:30 pm

I think it's PT and whoever wins the elections now starting :)
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby SubHuman » Sun May 29, 2016 2:36 pm

So no one? Anarchy? :D

Hm.asked admods what happen if none run. Pook made a very disrespectful answer. Wonder if he is just very rude or don't got a clue :p

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Re: Remind me Never EVER look at AVEN again!

Postby PiF » Sun May 29, 2016 3:32 pm

From what I can make out it seems to be extra work forced onto the pt with very little input from the pt... if that is true and I do stress if..then that would have crossed lines..... but it's been kept quite vague on who that additional work is going to be done by.

It all remains academic however if the three vacancies of the pt have no one running for them.

As for arche's answer I think he was trying to be humerous in his own way....but honestly they must be cacking their pants...if they put in people just so it doesn't look like a failure then those are likely not to last long and then they will leave and the circle starts again, undermining them even more..what's more it would be a public pr nightmare

If they get no one at all..which is looking more possible...then the whole way they run aven becomes a community issue that they have to answer about the way they run things with no accountability and the pt could collapse

were I being cynical....them removing the pt from aven would then remove the "the 2 year term works as proven by the pt" argument if there is no pt

But I'm sure they wouldn't do that. :D
Last edited by PiF on Sun May 29, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.