Avens npo

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PiF
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Avens npo

Postby PiF » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:54 am

Firstly Michael...I know you will read this haha

the declassification...it is within your own rules to do it and like it or not..when you pick and choose what rules you want to abide by it rather than the ones your supposed too it shows my point of selective application. Now as I mentioned before..all avens good ideas..except one..come from me...amendd the tos to show that declassification will now cease to free up some of the pressure and stress onto mods..and with an NB... declassifications can only be carried out when requested when the individual/s that it effects directly, request it. Do this then your then covered..Until then, Tan is quite right, your continually breaking your own tos by ignoring the bits you do not want to do and as we know tos breaks should have consquences

[quote="flergalwit] I'm sorry to say that AVEN becoming an NPO doesn't mean what you think it does. The job of the board of directors isn't to hold the teams to account but to provide a framework for them - a bit like the relationship between the wikimedia foundation and the various wikis. The board would likely get involved if the teams were doing something illegal, but that's not the case here to my knowledge.quote]

Not quite...the npo will allow you to be regstered with government for tax advantages, paying costs through tax reductions etc and as with any step into official recognition..you are more liable..I have my suspicions who will benefit from it becoming an npo with an all expenses life avaliable...but thats my concern.

Here is the reason why...aven is a kiddie school with very few pro rata adults in it ..that means parents with emo kids...can you imagine..even more so as it is based in the worlds ambulance chasing capital of the World..America..how long it will be before someone sues a government recognised body for the distress to their child?..yes government as you are now a step closer to being a registered body..think closely on that one and without the snowflake switch turned on...given the tremendous lacking ability of avens backroom and owner to see problems by their missmanagement in the past..you should be looking more to future proof aven ..something lets be honest the team have always struggled with.

as to the npo, it will rely on contributions...but it will struggle the same way as the aven shop does

Why..as I mentioned most of aven is kids who are not asexual..even more so kids who still live at home with mum and dad and are funded by mum and dad..why do you think aven shop does so little? ..in case mum and dad say Hey..whats this asexuality thing on my bank account? it shows something most kids will not disclose to those other than online.

So how do you beat that? simple..open up a paypal or similar account in the name of something like aven leisure, aven promotions...something that a kid can reply to the bank of mum and dad...o that, it's just something I bought off ebay..it protects them and should see the shop and contributions increase through discression...something else the lack of forward thinking team hadn't thought of

Now from past experiences this will be poo poo'd and mandy will claim it's his idea in 6 months :lol: :lol: ..but you have me..offering you..better ways to do things and pointing out the pitfalls. you know it makes sense even if you dislike it.

Still waiting on the declassification though :D

flergalwit
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Re: Avens npo

Postby flergalwit » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:20 pm

First off, you've misread what I said on the declassification.

What I said is that I am asking them to declassify your thread, ASAP. This is because I personally believe they should prioritise cases where the person has requested it. In general, declassification is a hugely laborious and time consuming process, and my guess is that a lot of the declassified threads involve people who have moved on and don't care any more. In my view it's better to spend time on the threads that someone cares about.

In other words, I am on your side - for once. I am only one voice of course.

PiF wrote:Now as I mentioned before..all avens good ideas..except one..come from me...

No, that's not what you mentioned before, and I'm sorry (or I should more accurately say "pleased") to say it's wrong. You do have good ideas sometimes, but the vast majority of the good ideas do not come from you.

PiF wrote:amendd the tos to show that declassification will now cease to free up some of the pressure and stress onto mods..and with an NB... declassifications can only be carried out when requested when the individual/s that it effects directly, request it.

That would be my preference (for report threads anyway) and I have suggested it before. That's not how it's working though.

PiF wrote:Not quite...the npo will allow you to be regstered with government for tax advantages, paying costs through tax reductions etc and as with any step into official recognition..you are more liable..I have my suspicions who will benefit from it becoming an npo with an all expenses life avaliable...but thats my concern.

Yeah I'm sure in your fantasy world, DJ will be swimming in luxury from AVEN contributions. The reality is quite different. DJ and a small number of us on the teams have personally contributed to the running of AVEN and AVEN related events over the last few years, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars each. Really, no-one is gonna make money from AVEN. At best we'll be able to cover the site running costs and event related costs through contributions.

PiF wrote:how long it will be before someone sues a government recognised body for the distress to their child?..yes government as you are now a step closer to being a registered body..

Thanks for the advice. Obviously we've checked out the legal situation carefully. Long story short: if someone decides to sue, they could go after AVEN's assets (if it's incorporated) but not the personal assets of the owner(s) / board member(s). That's a big improvement compared to how things were when AVEN was owned by one person alone.

The AVEN shop has nothing to do with anything: until very recently it was operated by one person who is not on any of the teams. Thanks for your suggestion that we go into the leisure business - hmm would that count as "money laundering"? presumably not in the illegal sense, but it gives me something of the same vibe. I think it's better we are open about what and who we are and if that means people can't contribute, that's a shame. But it hasn't been a problem in the past when we've actually had to raise money for various things.

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Tanwen
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Re: Avens npo

Postby Tanwen » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:50 am

But should it be the responsibility of a PT member to urge the admods to declassify a requested thread? PiF has asked for it, the admods should either declassify or give him a reason why it can't - they've had a reasonable amount of time to come to some sort of decision. To be honest, I don't think the thread comes under the cannot be declassified 'umbrella' and if PiF agrees to his name being left in then the amount of redacting will be minimal. Although the Doppel ones were declassified because they'd already been breached in part; it did set a precedent for threads being declassified out of 'order'
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

PiF
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Re: Avens npo

Postby PiF » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:01 am

Thank you Michael you mischevious scamp :lol: and Tan..not the michecious scamp part.

I'm glad Michael you agree with me that a simple tos update would resolve the issue of declassification and stop the practice of the last few years of the backroom picking and choosing what rules they want to apply and ignoring the times they break it. A double standard so obvious it's hard to avoid.

Tan is right of course, if you have rules and do not follow them then tos applies, if you are the arbitor of those rules and you choose not to follow those then your position is untenable and you should step down otherwise admins and mods are ignoring the very same standards they apply to members. Remember I am not asking for special rules, only those rules that the mods/admins pledge to maintain and apply, if they no longer choose to or think the rules do not apply to them then we have a problem with those same people punishing others for breaking the very same rules they choose to ignore...bearing in mind these are the very same rules they drew up and regulary update.

on the npo you said

Thanks for your suggestion that we go into the leisure business - hmm would that count as "money laundering"? presumably not in the illegal sense, but it gives me something of the same vibe. I think it's better we are open about what and who we are and if that means people can't contribute, that's a shame. But it hasn't been a problem in the past when we've actually had to raise money for various things.

Interesting? I never suggested fraud at all..what was on your mind when you thought that? was I closer to the real reason than I thought? I ask because you also said we had no problem in raising funds before so why need it as a npo now? the two reasonings seem to contradict each other. Even more so if the real reason is to raise additional funds, why wouldn't you make it easier for members to donate by not showing asexuality.org on their payment if donations are your real goal? all very contradictory ,Michael I am sure you can see.

yes members should face consequences if they break the tos but mods can choose what rules they want to abide by themselves...and

Yes we should become an npo to help with contributions but we have never had a problem raising funds before

both seem to be..well..contradictory.

as to dos...you techies are all the same...more old skool here with computers the size of wardrobes using reel to reel and binary cards with holes punched out..after that nothing else was rewarding.

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Tanwen
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Re: Avens npo

Postby Tanwen » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:50 am

Awww PiF, I rather fancy the idea of being a 'mischievous scamp' :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

flergalwit
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Re: Avens npo

Postby flergalwit » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:03 pm

PiF wrote:Interesting? I never suggested fraud at all..what was on your mind when you thought that?

Oh fraud, obviously. There must be SOME way of making some cash out of this asexuality wheeze... surely.

PiF wrote:was I closer to the real reason than I thought? I ask because you also said we had no problem in raising funds before so why need it as a npo now?

We've had no problems with finding people willing to donate, no. That doesn't mean there are no issues with receiving donations while unincorporated. An obvious one is that if we are not incorporated then any money raised has to go against someone's personal tax allowance. In the worst case, this could push them onto a higher tax band. That has never happened so far, but has restricted us somewhat.

PiF wrote:the two reasonings seem to contradict each other. Even more so if the real reason is to raise additional funds, why wouldn't you make it easier for members to donate by not showing asexuality.org on their payment if donations are your real goal? all very contradictory ,Michael I am sure you can see.

If showing asexuality.org on the bank statement turns out to be a problem for a significant number of members, I'm sure we'll look into alternatives if there are any that are practically and ethically sound. At the moment, I see no reason to think it's an issue. Tbh I can't even remember what it shows on one's bank statement. It might only have the name of the site through which donations are taken (e.g. paypal). Or maybe it just shows AVEN rather than the word asexuality.

I imagine there are legitimate issues along these lines, shared by those involved with LGBT groups. Donating to an LGBT group or cause might inadvertently out someone as LGBT. The same could apply with asexuality too. When we do start fundraising, I'll look into this.

PiF wrote:as to dos...you techies are all the same...more old skool here with computers the size of wardrobes using reel to reel and binary cards with holes punched out..after that nothing else was rewarding.

Not really a techie - mostly a pure mathematician who only just gets by with computers. (I do some C and Python programming.) Though I was addicted to programming the BBC micro back in the late 80s/early 90s. That's as far back as I go - punch cards are well before my time. But the C programming language was written over a decade before I was born and it's still very much alive and well, and I write in it almost every day. It's still arguably the best language for fast algorithmics.

I do remember the huge mainframes - though I didn't use them myself. My mother once showed me a massive machine, taking up about 2 and a half desks. It was known as a "word processor"...

Oh and hold your horses on the declass thing! You don't know what decision they have made or are are going to make yet.

PiF
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Re: Avens npo

Postby PiF » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:15 am

Okay ty...yeah it would be good to see the thread on my last banning..I was afraid I would have to contact Breachzilla and ask for the non redacted one :lol: :lol:

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Re: Avens npo

Postby Hpets » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:38 am

PiF wrote:I was afraid I would have to contact Breachzilla and ask for the non redacted one :lol: :lol:


Who is breachzilla?
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Tanwen
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Re: Avens npo

Postby Tanwen » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:55 pm

Breachzilla is the name given to the admod/PT member who breached during the Doppel incident, posting admod conversations on 'Avalanche' (set up by some disillusioned ex mods.) It still isn't known who actually breached - they could still be a member of the team for all anyone knows.
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

PiF
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Re: Avens npo

Postby PiF » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:20 pm

What they did was by moderation standards...wrong but..when a team becomes like governments in forgetting they are there for the people and start to become..we know better than you so you do as we tell you and not as we do...then understandably as all mods are not robots...one or two will either walk away, be a constatnt reminder within the team they are here for us and not the other way around (these mods are often turned upon by their own kind) or they set up a separate account such as breachzilla did...in which they copy threads and conversations and then publish them for all to see

In avens moderators/admins/pt's case I tend to think of it as Snowden and the NSA...I'll let you decide who was who :D

An interesting question for your 1st post Hpets

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Re: Avens npo

Postby Hpets » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:54 pm


An interesting question for your 1st post Hpets


Thank you! I've been a lurker on AVEN for quite a while. Then Apositive was linked a few weeks ago in Site Comments and I've been lurking here since.

It seems like AVEN has quite the political realm (much more than I originally believed). I'm just interested in learning for the time being.
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KAGU143
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Re: Avens npo

Postby KAGU143 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:23 pm

Glad you finally de-lurked, Hpets.
Welcome to Apositive! :)
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PiF
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Re: Avens npo

Postby PiF » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:46 am

Well your more than welcome Hpets, Apositive offers a slightly more mature way of doing things that is starting to be more and more recognised for those who are actually looking for information around Asexuality and as a place for Asexuals.

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Tanwen
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Re: Avens npo

Postby Tanwen » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:06 am

Glad you decided to post Hpets - we need all the help we can get to raise A positive's profile :D

The rule is 'What happens in admods stays in admods until declassified' and most abide by that; even when they want to shout things from the rooftops - it's a matter of trust.

THis site is more like AVEN was in the early days, but it has never had mods; we have only one admin and although Nancy may not post all that often she's around :D (and a lovely lady too...thought I'd better add that...being a creep and all :lol: :lol: :lol: )
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali