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Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:52 am
by PiF
Discuss? :D

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:30 am
by KAGU143
You really want to stir up some shit, eh? Okay. Here's a big ol' pot of it. Have fun!

Personally, I'm for Bernie - even to the point that I attended our state primary (a first time ever for me) and I have sent a few small financial contributions to him since I can't afford much more than that. I doubt if he will become the presidential candidate, though, so when it's time to vote I will be stuck with voting against the worst candidate (Trump) rather than voting for the best one.
(Hillary won accomplish much, but hopefully she won't destroy the little that Obama has managed to achieve. Trump is a mentally deranged, compulsively lying egomaniac who would happily start WWIII. ANYTHING would be better than him.)

The US political scene is in turmoil, mostly because the two main parties have merged together into what is essentially only one, with a few superficial differences that are bandied about to keep the ignorant masses happy. A percentage of the public has finally seen through the deception and they have realized that the party which once proudly called itself the Democratic party no longer exists. Its present leaders are now focused on profit margins rather than individuals' rights, and they will do anything at all to keep the money machines running. Number one is to do whatever it takes to prevent the election of a candidate who will threaten the status quo.
This primary season has pulled the blinders off of the voting public and exposed just how corrupt the entire political scene really is. Even if Bernie isn't elected he still deserves the bulk of the credit for doing this.

I've done all that I can for Bernie, other than to vote for him again if by some miracle he ends up being nominated, but I intend to do everything in my power to make sure that the Republicans never again (in my lifetime) have a majority in Congress. This is critical, because if - god forbid! - Trump or one of his minions manages to get elected it means that he/they will be opposed at every turn and that the damage done will be limited.
He will also, in all likelihood, end up being impeached at the first opportunity, because he WILL, without doubt, screw up monumentally and it won't take long for it to happen. After that, his VP will also have to be impeached - same scenario.

The US is such a big mess right now. It makes me sad.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:31 pm
by PiF
A mixture of having a few friends in the states and my multiple visits my opinions are as follows

Bernie would be the better president but I lost faith in him when I saw him with Al Sharpton...Al is like the black lives matter campaigners, their interests are in keeping the colours separate as well as promoting their own agendas...that really made me turn off Bernie

The other issue for Bernie is that I feel he actually would beat trump...but the democratic party feels differently to democratic voters so the party is likely to feel Hilary has more chance of beating trump

Hilary has real trust issues though, she is as likeable as licking a sweaty armpit and like trump, she changes her opinions but depending on who is paying the most. hilary lies for 13 minutes so the democrats are largely fucked

Trump, trump trump...whether you like him or not,,,he has certainly got people in the U.S. involved in politics again

He is incredibly clever in that he is a chamelion and the person you see at the end will not be the person who started the campaign ....he also as a non politician..he recognised the biggest group of voters were the majority of americans who have often been ignored in favour of lefty liberal minorities

Whether you like it or not...minorities do not win elections, majorities do and Trump realised he could have a captive audience in the silent forgotten majority...for many of trumps voters, they will be the people who have felt for far too long the tail has been wagging the dog and not the other way around as it should be...trump was smart on politicians were not.

From this side of the pond it looks like this...bernie would win but his own party will shaft him in favour of hilary who is supported by the money men and her own carear boys club. If hilary is unlikable and some bernie supporters will go to trump and trump will be your next president.

if there was a vote for none of the above..that would be the box most would tick....none of them scream leader of the free world

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:27 pm
by CatBunny
I feel Hillary is gonna get to the finals not Bernie :/ but i'll vote for anyone who isn't trump. Jesus what a shitlord.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:20 am
by Tanwen
Why can't Bernie stand as an independent? Why are you stuck with just two candidates for President? We don't get an option with Prime Minister but at least we do with candidates for MP (Monster Raving Loony Party anyone??? :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:30 am
by KAGU143
Bernie could stand as an independent, in theory, but that would split the Democrats' vote and hand the election to Trump.
There have been some hints, or (more probably) some wishful thoughts that Hillary and Bernie might join together on a combined ticket.
It's a long shot, but if it happens they will win by a landslide and Trump will be in the trash bin of history where he belongs.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:17 am
by PiF
The democrats have very little to loose by a joint ticket but I doubt Hilary would be a good team player and would still insist on the top job.

When she said very recently “We also have to keep our eye on Wall Street. We can’t ever let it wreck Main Street again,” ...she was rather quiet about declaring at that exact moment, wall street had donated upto that point, over $27.1 million to her campaign

At the momment, unless something drastically happens to remove Trump...then he will be doing a lgbt...he will be adding another letter but this time it will be USAT

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:27 am
by PiF
Well that got interesting now Donald has met the target to be the nominee and Bernie has said he is going to fight till the last day.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:28 am
by KAGU143
Bernie always said that he would stay in the race until the last day, but Hillary's supporters are NOT happy that he's keeping his word. They are particularly scared because roughly half of Democrats don't like Hillary and they won't support her if Bernie is even remotely an option. Some of Bernie's supporters won't vote for her regardless, even if she's the only choice, and that might, conceivably, hand the election to Trump. I'm not part of that group. but I do NOT like Hillary.

Trump isn't running against anybody any more, so of course he would get enough delegates. They don't have any other choice. Poor sods.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:53 am
by PiF
I see a secret service agent that was attached to the Clintons during and after Bills term is releasing a book with some apparent quite telling memories ... -new-book/

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:54 pm
by flergalwit
+1 for Clinton. Not that I can vote...

Maybe Sanders shared a platform with Al Sharpton to reach out to black people and other ethnic minorities. Clinton has been winning the dem nom quite handily in states that are ethnically diverse for the most part.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:56 pm
by KAGU143
I think Clinton will be much better than Trump, but only as a placeholder until we can (hopefully) find someone better.
I think it will waste four more years that might have been used to improve things instead of feeding the status quo.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:40 pm
by PiF
Not much of a choice, it's a bit like suicide, which one is better, a gun to the head or a knife to the throat. This is probably one of the few elections that "none of the above" should be on the ballot paper.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:50 am
by flergalwit
None of the above should always be on the ballot paper. In the UK, I've spoiled my ballot paper in 3/4 of the general elections I've been eligible to vote in. At least some of those times I'd have ticked none of the above if that were an option.

Clinton is actually my preferred choice out of all the primary candidates. Probably Marco Rubio second; I liked him; he seemed sensible and moderate. Shame he didn't do better. The Clintons - both of them - seem pretty scandal prone, but I think Hillary is our best bet for the president. After Bill's presidency, someone - I can't remember who - remarked that the prevailing attitude was "we don't trust you, sir, but you've done one hell of a good job." While the Clintons are two quite different people, I think the same statement will be made of Hillary.

I'm not sure I can agree that "the two main parties have merged together into what is essentially only one, with a few superficial differences that are bandied about to keep the ignorant masses happy" - but then it's possible I'm part of the ignorant masses I guess, albeit from the other side of the Atlantic. It seems to me the two parties are diverging. The Republican party has got a lot more extreme since Obama was elected, being drawn to the radical side by the Tea Party in response to Obama's fairly moderate policies like health care. The Republican party have done everything they can in the houses to stop Obama achieving anything; just recently some of their members went as far as vowing to block whomever Obama nominates to the supreme court. In the face of that, I think he's done a decent job overall. Trump said Clinton would be another 4 years of Obama - if so yes, sounds good; I can easily live with that. If otoh the Americans want to vote for a birther conspiracy theorist who believes the discredited crackpot theory that vaccinations cause autism... they know where to look!

The Dem party on the other hand seems to me to be slowly drifting leftwards. Their grassroots memberbase - exemplified by the universities - even more so. Honestly while in the short term it's the right that can do all the damage, in the longer term I'm more worried about the radical left, if they start gaining serious political power. They're more likely to introduce curbs to free speech, and lead to a society of paranoia where people will be scared to speak against left wing values. The right not so much. But then I don't deal with the right wing day to day; I'd vote them out of power right now if I could, but they don't seem like a long term threat. Their numbers - mostly white, middle-aged or older - are dwindling as a percentage of the voting block. Personally I hope a sensible, moderate conservative movement - made from all ages, genders and ethnicities - emerges from this mess to keep the lefties in check.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:23 am
by PiF
I wouldn't be comfortable if the only choice widely accepted is, which one do you trust the most whilst very few people trust any of them at all...If hilary gets back in I can imagine Bill going through the whitehouse saying..yep I had sex there, there there and no it wasn't with the wife

general sign of very dubious rich americans, they open up a charity in their name as the irs requires less informative tax returns than as an individual than a company. The ex secret service book should be quite a read ... on/5529266

away from the pr, I do feel most two part politics see the same party but in different pr's..they both know like the uk, one will spend money we don't have and the other will cut everything to the bone. This constant swaying allows for very little super long planning, bad for us but great for them.

I think the pr Trump does is not reflective in full as the president he would become. Like him or loathe him, he has got people involve in politics again.

The millenials/snowflakes that are currently coming out of colleges/uni's scare me the most. We live in a time where more and more apparently are going to higher education but their relaince on technology is seeing some of the most out of touch with the real world, intolerant. slow to mature and shut others down generation than ever before...with this lot, the future of free speech is hugely at risk....for a lot of smart people, they sure are as dumb as f*ck.

Funnily enough you mention drifting to the left, I see Corbyn and Sanders of the same ilk ideologists that look like grandads that attract a "aahhh he's lovely" but they rarely get anywhere. Corbyn has the vote of the labour paying members but has very little support from labour mp's and labour voters. He spent 30 years disagreeing with hiw own part and now he's at the top of their pile. He's a good backbencher but never a front bencher, same as bernie really.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:39 am
by flergalwit
That's what I mean though. I don't really care how much dirt people have on Clinton unless it's relevant to way she will make policies. I think she can do a good job, despite the dirt and despite the fact she may not be a nice person and may be a nightmare to work for if you're a secret service agent. There's too much salacious, scandal-obsessed personality crap as there is in our discourse if you ask me. I actually admire the way she's dealt with all the invective thrown at her for her admitted failings. Likewise Obama although there it's not even his fault to begin with mostly; it's the fact some nutcases think he's born in Kenya, and that wanting a fairer healthcare system and moderate checks on killing machines means he's an anti-American anti-Christ.

otoh I don't really like how Clinton and her supporters make it sound like women have to vote for her or they're being a traitor to their sex. People shoud vote for whomever they believe in regardless of gender. But I think she probably has no choice. Sanders is further left than her on virtually every issue apart from gun control. The only obvious way she can appeal to her left base over Sanders is to make a big deal of her gender. (And actually I would like a woman president, but I'd never vote for anyone for that reason alone.)

Sanders is more of a politician than Corbyn. Corbyn is just too honest and too much of a gentleman to be a politician, specifically avoiding personal attacks. Which I admire - and if I agreed with his policies, I'd be delighted to vote for him. Unfortunately for him though, personal attacks work. "Missing the open goal" is how his refusal to launch personal attacks on Cameron has been described. It's really sad that this counts against someone.

But yeah, Corbyn doesn't worry me so much. The millenial generation who has propelled him to where he is - they're the one to be worried about, if and when they enter mainstream politics at the highest level.

Re: Donald, Bernie or Hilary ?

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:36 am
by flergalwit
Thank you Sanders.

I needed some crumb of good news on what is one of the worst days of my life.