what's the difference?

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michaels
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what's the difference?

Postby michaels » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:04 am

I spoke to a schizophrenic fellow. He was dragged into his boss's office with his boss, his boss's boss, and his boss's boss's boss present and told that there have been complaints about his behavior. Apparently he mumbles to himself a lot and claps his hands from time to time. Although he is totally unaware of doing these things, his coworkers say it makes them "nervous."

You know what would happen if he had cerebral palsy and moaned all the time, and his coworkers made a similar complaint about his moaning. THEY would be the ones getting disciplined. But since he's schizophrenic it's perfectly okay to discriminate against him.

I advised him to file a human rights complaint so that there is a paper trail of harassment by coworkers in case he ever gets fired on some pretext.

Would love to know what that repulsive bigot Kivafan thinks of this one. Maybe someone can post on AVEN (or phone him at home, since all the AVENites who post here are his personal friends) and get his opinion.

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KAGU143
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby KAGU143 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:07 am

I don't know if Kivafan still posts on AVEN or not. I haven't seen anything recent from him. I'm still an AVENite and I check by there fairly often, but I haven't tried to keep up with every member or post on that entire site since the early part of 2004. (When it was actually possible.) Even when I was a mod I tended to stay in my own forums.

The symptoms you are describing sound almost like Tourette's syndrome, rather than schizophrenia, but there could be some overlap in the symptoms. I have only known one person with schizophrenia and he was on disability because he would sometimes become too disconnected from reality to hold a job, but, despite that, I never considered him to be any kind of danger to me.
In either case, Tourette's or schizophrenia, I would think that a person should be protected from any kind of harrassment based solely on the symptoms of their illness.
A human rights complaint seems absolutely appropriate under the circumstances.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

michaels
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby michaels » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:15 pm

Oh, so Kivafan joined AVEN only to slyly and underhandedly drive me out and then disappeared after his mission was accomplished? Figures. It's a recurring pattern in my life--contemptibly stupid and ignorant people tricking me into taking responsibility for THEIR decisions.

Thanks for the feedback on the main focus of the original post.

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Olivier
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby Olivier » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:54 pm

Michael, you've made the accusation that a whole group of people here are close "personal friends" with a "repulsive bigot", an accusation that's, as usual, completely baseless.

If rubbing people up the wrong way is "a recurring pattern in [your] life", then you might want to spend some time reflecting on why that might be; it might just improve your life to do so.

As to your post, if your schizophrenic friend is behaving at work in disruptive ways that he admits to not even being aware of, then that would seem to be a workplace issue that needs addressing. I'm not schizophrenic, but years ago I got called in to be told that people were made nervous by me losing my temper at my (ridiculously unstable and unreliable) computer. I just accepted that and toned it down, and I see no reason to complain about him being told that something similar is necessary on his part.

michaels
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby michaels » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:40 am

<snip the usual personal abuse>

Olivier wrote:As to your post, if your schizophrenic friend is behaving at work in disruptive ways that he admits to not even being aware of, then that would seem to be a workplace issue that needs addressing. I'm not schizophrenic, but years ago I got called in to be told that people were made nervous by me losing my temper at my (ridiculously unstable and unreliable) computer. I just accepted that and toned it down, and I see no reason to complain about him being told that something similar is necessary on his part.


Did anyone say this guy was my friend? No, he's just someone I talked to.

And he's not even aware he's doing those things. How is he supposed to "tone it down" when he doesn't notice he's doing it? In other words, what constructive purpose is served by his being disciplined over the symptoms of an illness?

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Olivier
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby Olivier » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:36 pm

michael, it's not personal abuse to point out that you made a baseless allegation about a group of people that includes me. Your thread here is defending someone against what you see as a baseless allegation, so perhaps a little introspection could - yet again - be helpful. I'm trying to say this politely, but your constant claims of victimhood actually contain quite a lot of abusive language. Perhaps, like your acquaintance, you are simply unaware of your behaviour, or its likely effect on others with whom you share a common space.

And he's not even aware he's doing those things. How is he supposed to "tone it down" when he doesn't notice he's doing it? In other words, what constructive purpose is served by his being disciplined over the symptoms of an illness?

Have you considered that they may be trying to prompt your acquaintance into noticing what he's doing? To encourage him to be a bit self-aware and considerate of his coworkers? Why is it OK to ask that his coworkers be considerate of his illness, and not the other way around?

If he has an illness that makes it impossible for him to work in a shared workspace without disrupting the work that others do there, then that may simply be a case of his illness making that line of work unviable for him. Shizophrenia is not the only illness that makes certain lines of work unviable. You can't be a pilot with epilepsy, you can't be a surgeon with Parkinson's, you can't be a pro cyclist with Lymes disease, and it may just be that you can't work in a quiet office environment with uncontrollable noisemaking tendencies. I don't think any of those are a human rights violation, they're just pragmatic responses to reality.

fridayoak
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby fridayoak » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:49 am

First job I had out of uni I knew that a guy on my team was schizophrenic going into the job, I was a little unnerved by it but got to meet him (in fact it was just the two of us for my first half day) and he was great fun, smart guy who I bonded with and I forgot all about his illness (he was a little eccentric but that was all). But then a few months later he was acting all weird over the day, in his own world, being short with people, not doing what people were telling him and other stuff and he ended up walking out that day to never return. Well I know lots of people walk out of jobs but tbh it was impossible for others to work with him that day the way he was being so if that is a trait of schizophrenics then I can understand why people would have an issue.

Oh and I've no idea who kivafan is by the way.

michaels
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby michaels » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:42 am

Does anyone have a comment to make that isn't full of self-serving sophistries? So far only Nancy has made one.

On the other hand, I don't particularly care. The slyness and underhandedness displayed by nearly everyone on earth--which is a prerequisite for being successful today--is enough to make even a saint disgusted with our entire species. I'm frankly hoping for Armageddon now, without even being religious.

fridayoak
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Re: what's the difference?

Postby fridayoak » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:02 am

Chill out blud.