poll: an irremediable world

The place for off-topic threads, games and socializing. Stop in for a visit!

is the world irremediable, and what can be done about it?

The world is irremediable and nothing can be done about it.
2
20%
The world is irremediable and people should focus on the afterlife.
0
No votes
The world is remediable and we should do what we can to improve it.
4
40%
The world is remediable but it will take outside intervention to remediate it.
1
10%
The world is fine just the way it is.
1
10%
Other.
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

michaels
Super Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 am

poll: an irremediable world

Postby michaels » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:23 pm

"Irremediable" = has problems that can't be fixed.
"Remediable" = has problems that CAN be fixed.

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:27 pm

My real answer would be somewhere between "fine like it is" and "other."
This is because "world" means (to me) the entire planet and every single aspect of it, including the entire ecosystem as well the outside influences that come from the rest of the solar system or beyond.
I don't think that the issues of any one species will have much bearing on the entire world, at least not in the long run. We might blow things up or cause global warming or nuclear winter or whatever, and we may exterminate thousands of species just like the asteroid did, but we won't be around forever and the world will pick up where it left off and go on just fine without us.
I sometimes think that we are the dinosaurs of our era, trampling everything in our path, and that species much more wonderful than those we currently see are going to evolve in the empty space that we have made - once we eliminate ourselves and get out of the way.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
Lich
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Lich » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:59 pm

This is a world where teenage girls get their noses cut off. Where parents have willingly sent their children to have the homosexuality brainwashed out of them(Impossible, but whatever). One of the greatest nations on this Earth split the atom and burned hundreds of thousands of people to death and still retained it's legitimacy. Where people pray for the end of the world to come sooner than later. Where it's lowest stationed people freeze to death on the street. Where, while we have the power to do so, we have not eradicated polio from the entire world. In short, and without a long list of why it's irredeemable or otherwise, let me say this. We live in a world of the lesser of two evils. While we try to comfort ourselves by saying we chose the lesser of the two, it still cannot be denied that we didn't take the hard route to where we want to get. How could I ever lie and say this world is redeemable?

Even where we live, in the land of first world problems, I have scars all over my body. And why? Because my classmates felt it appropriate to whip rocks at the head of the freak in their midst. And that is just the least of it. I guess I can go to sleep soundly tomorrow morning knowing that at least I won't be killed in a drone attack on my village.

User avatar
Dargon
Mega Member
Posts: 516
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Dargon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:40 pm

I'm abstaining from the vote for now because I am not sure how I feel about the options.

First off, I'm going to assume, based on your second post, by "world" you mean "humanity." Humanity regularly commits some vile things, but it does good things too.

Now your definition of "redeemable" and "irredeemable" are not necessarily exclusive. Humanity has problems that can be fixed. It also has problems that I am not sure can be fixed. Based simply on the differences in the views and opinions of others, I think it is impossible that humanity will ever achieve utopia (I'd go so far as to say humanity is probably pretty likely to blow itself up). That being said, every effort to improve humanity should be taken.

In the end, humanity has the potential to do great things, but it also has the potential to completely eradicate itself. Which way will it head? Only time will tell.

PiF
Apositive Star
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:47 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby PiF » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:16 am

I'm abstaining because I couldn't find the whogivesafuck option :lol:

michaels
Super Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby michaels » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:28 am

Dargon and PiF: Your votes probably belong in the "other" category.

The diad that I set up with the questions is pretty straightforward. If all of the problems the human world has can be solved, then it makes sense to go about fixing them. If there are problems that can't be solved, and they are significant enough, then the only postures that make sense are either afterlife religions or nihilism. Dargon introduces another option: (maybe) some human problems can't be solved but we should try to solve them anyway. And PiF is just trolling out of personal animosity.

User avatar
Dargon
Mega Member
Posts: 516
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Dargon » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:20 pm

michaels wrote:Dargon and PiF: Your votes probably belong in the "other" category.


I thought of that, but I figured I'd wait until the original options were clarified.

If there are problems that can't be solved, and they are significant enough, then the only postures that make sense are either afterlife religions or nihilism. Dargon introduces another option: (maybe) some human problems can't be solved but we should try to solve them anyway.


If we're going with the definition of nihilism meaning simply the lack of belief in any higher purpose or meaning, then the option is always religion or nihilism. That being said, by that definition of nihilism, the nihilist isn't necessarily the narcissistic punk which the word so often describes.

If we go with that broader definition, then sure, I'm a nihilist. However, just because I don't believe in a higher purpose doesn't mean I can't make the best of this short time I have for both myself and those I love, or even those I do not know but could be better off. One could argue that in itself is hedonistic, as I do derive pleasure from the happiness of others. However, if that is the case, then that particular brand of hedonism doesn't lead to the narcissism typically associated with nihilism, but rather the opposite.

I suppose my view is that regardless of whether humanity is or is not redeemable, one should make the best of their life.

michaels
Super Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby michaels » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:59 am

Religion and nihilism are NOT the only two options. It's possible to be committed to an earthly purpose that doesn't qualify as a religion.

For some time I've seen the great political diad of our times as being between those who believe that paradise should be pursued on earth and those who believe that it shouldn't. The former tend to work toward solutions to human problems while alive. The latter focus on preparing themselves for the afterlife. Since the early 1980s control of the United States has been largely in the hands of the latter, but Obama represented a significant shift toward the former. It is, sadly, going to be a very short-lived shift, as people tend to seek instant gratification and the fact that Obama didn't solve global warming, world hunger, industrial unemployment and the danger of asteroid impacts in his first term has led people to consider him a failure. He didn't PROMISE instant results but people always expect them. Meanwhile, the other crowd don't promise results at all until after you're dead, so it's impossible for them to fail even if they only make the world a less livable place.

User avatar
Lich
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Lich » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:16 pm

I was able to see a doctor because of Barack Obama, so screw all the bitches and hoes calling for a Republicunt in office as of 2013. I'd rather burn. And honestly? The world as it is now is indeed irredeemable. It's not to be bitter or mean, although I am feeling plenty of the former as of late. Yet, should the old paradigm be smashed, who knows what humanity is capable of. Yet, this society of overindulgence, instant gratification, unsustainable excess, greed needs to be done away with. Humanity was never meant to make a dollar off itself. The very act of doing so is self-destructive to the overall needs of our species.

We need to pool our resources. These city-states just aren't cutting it.

User avatar
Dargon
Mega Member
Posts: 516
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Dargon » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:29 pm

At risk of going into political, how did Barack Obama allow you to see the doctor? I still don't have health insurance, and I am glad there has been quite a bit of trouble with the mandate that requires people to purchase it, because I cannot afford it.

michaels
Super Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby michaels » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:34 pm

Actually, I've discovered something new. The member who posted a profanity in this thread (I'm not allowed to name names as per board rules) did not do it in order to express personal animosity for _me_. That person did so because there was an ongoing disagreement between the board administrator and several AVEN exports about the profanity word filter and wanted to deliberately circumvent the word filter in order to rub Nancy's nose in dung.

I believe that this member should be permabanned, as should anyone else who circumvents the word filter, or in any other way interferes with the orderly operation of Apositive.

User avatar
Olivier
Regular Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:19 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Olivier » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:14 pm

I find the world imperfect, but do not see this as a reason for nihilism or despair. Not seeing everything in black and white allows me to strive to improve the world even while thinking it's quite good already. We'll never make it to 100%, but that doesn't make what we have worthless, nor efforts to improve the world pointless.

I didn't vote, but I guess that's Other.

User avatar
Shaggy
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Shaggy » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:44 pm

The world is remediable but it will take outside intervention to remediate it.

I have great faith in the Planets ability to Heal, ... but,

it would require the removal of between 2 to 4 billion of the current human population.


The "outside intervention" could be either a teeny little virus, or

my elevation to the Office of The Angel of Death.


The problem with a teeny little Virus is that it would likely be non discriminatory,

and remove High Value Folk such as Artisans and Artistes.

Whereas, as your Angel of Death, I would eschew the "A's" and move right onto the "B's" of

"THE LIST".

Bankers and Bureaucrats ... many are not merely superfluous, but also pernicious!
{Paedophile Persons and Priests and Purveyors of Bee killing Pollutants are also high on The List!}

Suggestions for "The List" will be welcomed, but p'raps in a separate Topic, "Deleterious Denizens".
['Twill make it sooo much easier for our Moderators.]

I warn now that I shall not countenance the inclusion of "Clowns"!
Yes, I know that some of you are fearful of Clowns, but ...

(a) we must try to overcome our fears,
not only is it part of growing up, but also most of us are fearful of the WRONG things! ... because ...

(b) Clowns are not nearly as frightening as Oil Company Executives. Trust me on that one.
[Just IMO, but as your Angel of Death, it's MO wot counts! :D ]
"Crivens" and "Ook" ... what else need be said?

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby KAGU143 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:56 pm

But ... how about those Clowns who ARE Oil Company Executives?!
Surely those should be exterminated as soon as possible, and - most urgently - before they have a chance to spawn!

"Deleterious Denizens" could become a very long list indeed.
I approve this topic. :thumb:
:mrgreen:
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
Shaggy
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Shaggy » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 pm

Ahhh ... Yes ... we shall have to weigh the spawn of those Listed.

I have been reading some of the comments of the Spawn of your Presidential Contender, Romney.

LIST material ... assuredly!

But ranking somewhat below ... The Dolphin killers of Taiji !

[And, of course, ALL Frackers must be, ... well ... Fracked with alacrity and panache.]


This Angel of Death thing could become quite time consuming ...

I wonder if I should consider Franchising Options ?? :angrymob:
"Crivens" and "Ook" ... what else need be said?

User avatar
Tanwen
Mega Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Tanwen » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:35 am

*Pssst...Shaggy - isn't it wonderful not to have to worry about thread necromancy ;) :lol: *
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby KAGU143 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:36 am

Ha!

Threads never die around here! ...
They might take an occasional extended nap or something, but they are NOT DEAD!!
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

ASIC

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby ASIC » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:08 pm

Shaggy wrote:Suggestions for "The List" will be welcomed, but p'raps in a separate Topic, "Deleterious Denizens".
['Twill make it sooo much easier for our Moderators.]

I warn now that I shall not countenance the inclusion of "Clowns"!


What of the fraught topic of... Mimes?

(And would, out of interest, this have included the denizens of Holy Wood before they got the parrots working?)

ASIC

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby ASIC » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:14 pm

Shaggy wrote:This Angel of Death thing could become quite time consuming ...

I wonder if I should consider Franchising Options ?? :angrymob:


Perhaps no man should be considered for the franchise unless he declares himself willing to append his own name at the foot of his list... it would concentrate the motives of the applicants wonderfully!

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby KAGU143 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:07 am

ASIC wrote:
Shaggy wrote:What of the fraught topic of... Mimes?


Because I cannot hear or read the word "mimes" without this classic bit of video playing in my mind .... and because bad taste is only a matter of opinion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RGDCUHIF-4
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
Tanwen
Mega Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Tanwen » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:59 am

ASIC wrote:
Shaggy wrote:This Angel of Death thing could become quite time consuming ...

I wonder if I should consider Franchising Options ?? :angrymob:


Perhaps no man should be considered for the franchise unless he declares himself willing to append his own name at the foot of his list... it would concentrate the motives of the applicants wonderfully!


Under Equal Ops legislation, female applicants must also be considered :hmph:

*And thinking of it Trans and intergeders too :) *
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

User avatar
Shaggy
New Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Shaggy » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:12 pm

Tanwen wrote:
ASIC wrote:
Perhaps no man should be considered for the franchise unless he declares himself willing to append his own name at the foot of his list... it would concentrate the motives of the applicants wonderfully!


Under Equal Ops legislation, female applicants must also be considered :hmph:

*And thinking of it Trans and intergeders too :) *


Yes ... erm ... well ... ya see ...

Because "It Would Not Do" to have an Angel of Death dying on the job, as it were ... :wag:

successful Applicants will be required to Relinquish the Mortal Plane prior to commencement of Duties.


On the "Equal Ops legislation" thingie ... my understanding is that ...

Both Death AND Taxes will remain, universally, "Equal ops" ... Good News huh? :rofl:


On the more vexatious question of Mimes, Accordionists and players of Amplified Instruments ...

I'm inclined to invoke Management Rule #44 ...
"Any Ruling that that One is reluctant to make, for any reason, shall be sent to
"A Committee"
whose quorum is no fewer than 44 Members."
Where it shall languish for aeons.

I am confident that there are sufficient despoilers of Earth, Sea, Sky and their attendant inhabitors,
to keep us all busy for several lifetimes Afterlives. :mrgreen:
[without needing to adjudicate on possibly dodgy Artistes]
[ ... though Andre Rieux tests my resolve :doh: ]
"Crivens" and "Ook" ... what else need be said?

User avatar
Tanwen
Mega Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Tanwen » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:39 am

ASIC wrote:
Shaggy wrote:This Angel of Death thing could become quite time consuming ...

I wonder if I should consider Franchising Options ?? :angrymob:


Perhaps no man should be considered for the franchise unless he declares himself willing to append his own name at the foot of his list... it would concentrate the motives of the applicants wonderfully!


I iz losing posts :'( . I'm sure I protested that women should have an equal right to be considered for franchising opportunities...where it go???? ]}:(
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

User avatar
KAGU143
Administrator
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby KAGU143 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:23 pm

Baroo???? (As said by Scooby Doo.)

I thought you mentioned it, too. I haven't touched anything -- I swear!

But wait -- there it is! Just a few posts above this one, safe and sound.
*whew*
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

User avatar
Tanwen
Mega Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Tanwen » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Oh yes! 8|
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

User avatar
imonroe
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:37 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby imonroe » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:49 am

I was about to say... I know I didn't touch it... x_X

I tried to be careful with buttons! I think they still hate me. :/
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
―A.A. Milne Winnie-the-Pooh

User avatar
Tanwen
Mega Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Tanwen » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:56 am

They hid for a while - posts are evil like that!
You lose nothing when fighting for a cause ... In my mind the losers are those who don't have a cause they care about. - Muhammad Ali

Porcupine
New Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Porcupine » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:43 pm

I choose remediable, because I am a practical person who is always looking at real ways that I can improve the world (in this life) through educating others about how to take care of the Earth (as a naturalist, my job) while also keeping an eye on my own everyday behavior leading me to the afterlife that I want, which is one in which I help people and the Earth. I also volunteer, help the poor as best I can, and interrupt conversations where racism or sexism is taking place to try to get the people in the conversations to see humanity as a unified whole and to respect their fellow human beings. :) Woohoo :) and they get mad sometimes ... but I feel compelled to do it, as my gift to humanity ... I do it out of a place of love... they can't always tell ... I don't think I am better than anyone, I just want us to all feel united and loving towards each other and the Earth, which depends on us.

I mean, our every day choices affect how we, personally affect global warming. You can really only be in charge of you personally. I can't tell the rest of the world what to do, but I can do my best to educate, persuade and influence people, I can deeply educate myself, and I can choose to live a "greener" lifestyle myself. That way I can be a living example of positive ways to take action. If you see yourself taking little steps to make the world a better place, it will feel less overwhelming and more like it is actually salvageable. One way to reduce global warming is to just turn off the lights when you are not in a room. If you get your electricity from coal, as most of us do, turning off the lights reduces the coal you burn, which reduces the carbon released into the atmosphere on your behalf. The reduced carbon reduces global warming. :) Yay! Just congratulate yourselves on all the little things you do. :) Then do more. We are all potential world-savers, if we choose to be. :)

Here is a sustainability organization: http://www.naturalstep.org/en/take-action-0, http://www.naturalstep.org/en/usa/get-involved

Here is a way to measure how much resources on the Earth that you use and how to use less if you want to:
http://myfootprint.org/en/visitor_information/

Shmileys :) :) and many happy returns :)

Porcupine
New Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Porcupine » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:06 pm

http://myfootprint.org/en/take_action/r ... footprint/
The link above shows you how to reduce your Earth footprint and have less of an impact on the Earth's natural resources than you currently do. I've managed to reduce my footprint a bunch since I first took the quiz years ago. :) Yay!

Of course, I am not an ascetic, I still have what I need to live and plenty more... like this computer; this is not a need but a want. ;) With it, though, I am getting my education and will be using it as a means to an end as my ends are never material things but ways in which to help the world (and the stuff I own provide the means to do it.) Getting this education (Masters of Science in Environmental Education) on this computer will help me get a permanent job, which will help me pay off my debts for going to school and eventually have money left over to give to the poor and/or towards conservation efforts.

Except for chocolate... LOL that is pretty much a materialistic end... but I buy Fair Trade chocolates, so it supports the poor who grow cocoa beans and need to be paid enough for their hard work to take care of their kids and build a well for clean drinking water. The big chocolate companies (Mars, Hersheys) don't pay them enough; they make these people's lives pretty tough. Divine, Theo, and Green and Blacks chocolates are certified Fair Trade by a third party, so I buy them. LOL so I guess I am still helping people in my process of buying a chocolate bar (means) ... but the chocolate bar just pleases me (end). I don't give away my chocolate bars. ;) That's why I was thinking it is an end in itself, but I guess it is still a means to help because I buy Fair Trade. Anyone else buy Fair Trade here? I buy like 1 bar per month sometimes, if I am feeling like I can afford it. Usually I consider dessert as an unnecessary thing.

LOL sometimes I crave some dessert but I am in the woods working in a camp and I have to wait 2 or 3 weeks before I can get a ride to town to get any dessert. I don't have a car. I have to get a ride with someone else. I can wait. It's no big deal. :) I'm very good at using my imagination for the dessert I would be having if I was having dessert, just like the girls in the movie, The Little Princess, were imagining food when they had none. Fortunately, I have never gone hungry, unlike the girls in that story. :) What about the movie, Hook? Have you seen that part of the movie where Peter Pan was imagining food in Neverland and then they got into a big food fight? :) tee hee hee :) Yeah, I need to be involved in a food fight (with soft squishy food) :) looks like fun :)

Kellam
New Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: poll: an irremediable world

Postby Kellam » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:26 am

I have to add, late I know, that I think humanity is good at heart and our problems can certainly be mended, mimes asside. I know about all the hurt and hate in the world. Our selfisish attitudes towards how others lead their lives and how we utilize the Earth's resources leaves us raw sometimes and puts us in difficult positions. But there is always slow, incrimental change going on around us all the time. A redwood does not grow over night. The more we learn from the history of our species the more we move forward as a cohesive whole and the more we shed the negatives of that history from our collective shoulders.

Think global act local. That's my motto. It works for people as well as the environment. Example: When I moved to Boston, MA in the late 1990's there was still a problem with neo-nazi groups and overt bigotry. Now, thanks to group effort and opposition, I haven't seen a swastika graffiti mark in the city in almost a decade. When I was a kid, inter-racial couples were an anomolly. Now, it would seem odd to me if all I saw were races paired up with their own kind. None of this would have been possible without MLK and the civil rights movement in the US in the 1950's and 60's. None of that would have been possible without the Sufregette movement decades before. And that couldn't have happened without the Abolishionist movement. And it could be argued all the way back through Martin Luther, Jesus of Nasereth and Socrates and the Greeks making Democracy a thing.

My point is that change on such important topics never comes in one swift move. There are far too many people for that to happen. You may not be a part of ending some evil in your lifetime, but you can contribute bricks to the wall that bars that evil in due time. I always try to love what I have, and make changes to what could be better. The world is not a simple place, but it is a good place. Most people don't kill, maim, theive or commit acts of violence. Alot of the world's hurt comes from thoughtlesness and selfishness, accidents and lack of consideration of others. The more mindfull the world becomes, the more we listen to eachother (inerwebs etc.) the better we become. Or maybe as Ray Kurzweil thinks we'll just become robots or super-inteligent streams of electrons!